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Mind you the Jewish helped the British to get to Palestine in the first place. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nili https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nil

by iddan 3y ago

Mind you the Jewish helped the British to get to Palestine in the first place. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nili https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nili The British, like in many other colonies were bad rulers, and even so the majority of the Jewish population didn’t wage war on the Brits and waited patiently for the Mandate to be over

leereeves 3y ago
Yeah, it was a complicated relationship. But that example seems to support the original statement that "Israel was never tenable without war." First against the Ottomans, then the British, then the Arabs.
wasimanitoba 3y ago
- The British offered land that didn't belong to them because of colonialism - They offered land to Zionists to further their imperialist goals - The British enabled Jewish immigration to Palestine when it was clear that Zionists intended to take over the entire territory of Palestine - The local Arab population wasn't stupid and they understood that Zionism was an organized political program driven in large part by Jewish religious extremists to take away their home That only some Zionists resorted to terrorist bombing campaigns against the British is hardly "patiently waiting". They were only there because of the British and still waged war against them, mirroring Israel's refusal to heed US admonitions against illegal land grabs in the West Bank despite absolute dependence on American protection. It's a client state that feels it can write the rules, steal what it wants and bites the hand that feeds it.
- vlovich123 3y ago
  > The British offered land that didn't belong to them because of colonialism I’m sorry, but the British mandate didn’t exist because of colonialism. It existed because it was at war with the Ottoman Empire during WWI and won territory. That is very different than colonialism even though it was a colonial power and that’s how it got its strength and military experience and might. The local Arab population hadn’t had sovereignty in many hundreds of years. > They offered land to Zionists to further their imperialist goals They offered the same land to both Zionists and local Arabs as a reward for helping overthrow the Ottoman Empire. Of course they kept it through the British Mandate cause the Brits are a crafty folk. As for actually honoring the agreement in 1948, a large part of legitimizing the state of Israel was because of what happened to Jews in WWII - atrocities no other people felt as deeply and the general populace was shocked into action when they learned what had been going on. Today’s Jewish population is still smaller than it was in 1939 for context. Half of all Jews worldwide are in Israel which I hope explains the emotional reaction of treating critiques and attacks on Israel as anti semitism (and of course that argument is weaponized for political purposes). > That only some Zionists resorted to terrorist bombing campaigns against the British is hardly "patiently waiting". By that line of reasoning, that only some Palestinians engage in terrorist attacks means that all Palestinians are guilty? For context, once the state of Israel was established the other groups were labeled terrorist organizations and were ordered to merge into the IDF. One group resisted and the IDF attacked it and defeated it. The same doesn’t seem to be happening with Hamas which despite being in power can barely even control other militant groups in the area. Is your suggestion to hand control over to Hamas? Cause you only have to look at what happened with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt to understand what popular democracy looks like in the area (keep in mind Hamas was elected and then immediately abolished democracy).
- throwaway8877 3y ago
  The land didn't belong to British. Nor did it belong to Ottomans and nor to Arabs. The only rightful option for the defacto controllers of the land was to return it to Jews.
kgwgk 3y ago
> Mind you the Jewish helped the British to get to Palestine in the first place. So did the Arabs. Before revolting against the League of Nations mandate for British administration they were revolting against the Ottoman Empire - and fighting alongside the British (/French/Italian) Egyptian Expeditionary Force.

by iddan 3y ago

leereeves 3y ago

Yeah, it was a complicated relationship. But that example seems to support the original statement that "Israel was never tenable without war." First against the Ottomans, then the British, then the Arabs.

wasimanitoba 3y ago

- The British offered land that didn't belong to them because of colonialism - They offered land to Zionists to further their imperialist goals - The British enabled Jewish immigration to Palestine when it was clear that Zionists intended to take over the entire territory of Palestine - The local Arab population wasn't stupid and they understood that Zionism was an organized political program driven in large part by Jewish religious extremists to take away their home That only some Zionists resorted to terrorist bombing campaigns against the British is hardly "patiently waiting". They were only there because of the British and still waged war against them, mirroring Israel's refusal to heed US admonitions against illegal land grabs in the West Bank despite absolute dependence on American protection. It's a client state that feels it can write the rules, steal what it wants and bites the hand that feeds it.

vlovich123 3y ago
> The British offered land that didn't belong to them because of colonialism I’m sorry, but the British mandate didn’t exist because of colonialism. It existed because it was at war with the Ottoman Empire during WWI and won territory. That is very different than colonialism even though it was a colonial power and that’s how it got its strength and military experience and might. The local Arab population hadn’t had sovereignty in many hundreds of years. > They offered land to Zionists to further their imperialist goals They offered the same land to both Zionists and local Arabs as a reward for helping overthrow the Ottoman Empire. Of course they kept it through the British Mandate cause the Brits are a crafty folk. As for actually honoring the agreement in 1948, a large part of legitimizing the state of Israel was because of what happened to Jews in WWII - atrocities no other people felt as deeply and the general populace was shocked into action when they learned what had been going on. Today’s Jewish population is still smaller than it was in 1939 for context. Half of all Jews worldwide are in Israel which I hope explains the emotional reaction of treating critiques and attacks on Israel as anti semitism (and of course that argument is weaponized for political purposes). > That only some Zionists resorted to terrorist bombing campaigns against the British is hardly "patiently waiting". By that line of reasoning, that only some Palestinians engage in terrorist attacks means that all Palestinians are guilty? For context, once the state of Israel was established the other groups were labeled terrorist organizations and were ordered to merge into the IDF. One group resisted and the IDF attacked it and defeated it. The same doesn’t seem to be happening with Hamas which despite being in power can barely even control other militant groups in the area. Is your suggestion to hand control over to Hamas? Cause you only have to look at what happened with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt to understand what popular democracy looks like in the area (keep in mind Hamas was elected and then immediately abolished democracy).
throwaway8877 3y ago
The land didn't belong to British. Nor did it belong to Ottomans and nor to Arabs. The only rightful option for the defacto controllers of the land was to return it to Jews.

kgwgk 3y ago

> Mind you the Jewish helped the British to get to Palestine in the first place. So did the Arabs. Before revolting against the League of Nations mandate for British administration they were revolting against the Ottoman Empire - and fighting alongside the British (/French/Italian) Egyptian Expeditionary Force.