5 ms·

Their deal is active till 2029. It’ll be interesting to see what Sachs does. I think AMEX is a better fit for Apple though. I was surprised to hear that Apple

Their deal is active till 2029. It’ll be interesting to see what Sachs does. I think AMEX is a better fit for Apple though. I was surprised to hear that Apple is trying to do finance things in house but in hindsight, that makes sense. This is Apple, after all.

hardwaresofton 3y ago
It's up to GS to find a replacement[0]. I think Apple was quite gracious in letting them out (though depending on what news outlet you read the story is spun a couple different ways), but I'm very surprised since GS is generally known (IIRC) as shrewd deal makers. The allure of allying with Apple (and seeming innovative?) was just too strong, I guess -- they did a deal that was bad for them. As a holder of an Apple card, it's virtually only upside. I'm excited to find out who else is going to try and ride the coat tails of the #1/#2 company in the world and the benefits they'll offer to Apple customers. Worst case I lose a credit card -- no biggie. Upside, I continue to have access to the credit and maybe an even more prestigious banking institution (AMEX???). I really don't think that Apple would go ahead and buy up some local bank charters and build their own bank -- only so much antitrust attention a given company wants to invite! But if they did, I'd be excited to see what they'd build -- I bet it would be quite favorable for Apple customers. [0]: https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/goldman-sachs-faces-rocky-exit-apple-credit-card-partnership-2023-12-18/ https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/goldman-sachs-faces...
- ghaff 3y ago
  For me, pretty much the only upside of the Apple credit card is an incremental discount on a free credit card for occasional expensive product purchases. Otherwise I'd probably just as soon not have the additional credit card as it doesn't really make sense for me to use it for anything else.
  - hardwaresofton 3y ago
    Ah you mean the 3% discount no Apple products? Because that's pretty decent. Though I think a bunch of other cards spike up to 3% from time to time. I personally like the access to extra credit, and I think that Apple's platform integration is pretty darn good. Apple's brand power seems to just... work out for people who stick with them (for now!). They're nowhere near AMEX's legendary customer-friendliness but... I'm willing to see if they try to get there!
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I'm not sure what legendary customer-friendliness means in the context of a credit card. If I want to dispute a charge, I've never really had an issue with calling up the bank and getting it resolved or, presumably, getting a new card issued. And the days where having a physical office in a foreign capital where I could cash a check or whatever is pretty much way in the past.
      - hombre_fatal 3y ago
        Good customer service can mean things like the people are pleasant, aren’t working from a stressed call center sweat shop, have the discretion to do what you need, have the knowledge to help you rather than just run some dialog tree. Discover is much better every time I call them than my Capital One card. And Schwab (bank) is amazing compared to my other bank. The customer agents put me on hold to ask someone in the engineering department to help me with a very weird Zelle bug. It was all so pleasant and made me really appreciate the service. It’s especially noticeable when you need help with a weird situation that takes time to explain and doesn’t fit into some FAQ. Meanwhile bad customer service is revolting on multiple levels, like revealing that the company wants to save money instead of spend on a good experience.
    - ipaddr 3y ago
      They closed my account for missing a payment. Not sure where the legendary customer service comment comes from perhaps their marketing is stronger than their offerings
      - 3y ago
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
    I have an Apple Card and never use it. It is handy to have the extra card for the sole purpose of not dinging my credit as much if I decide to carry a balance on the other card I use all the time.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      It's also handy to have a spare credit card in case something funky happens with fraud detection when you're traveling. (Or you just leave your card in a restaurant someplace.) I haven't had an issue of late but after I did have a problem a couple of times I always travel with at least one extra card these days.
      - SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
        True. It feels like banks at least in the States have improved their systems around this in recent years. I remember having to call them and tell them I was going overseas and where to about a decade ago. Nowadays they have more sophisticated systems that rarely if ever block me. Usually the problem is on the receiving end of the payment now if anything. Most recent annoyance was trying to book LATAM in Peru a couple of years ago in soles and getting blocked from doing that by LATAM themselves after triggering some weird anti fraud system
        ghaff 3y ago
        No one even seems to want you (or provides a mechanism to) file international travel plans any longer. Been quite a few years since I've had an issue but I used to have some random declines for things like a $15 western US truck stop or a modest grocery purchase.
        SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
        So true! I remember calling Chase one day on the way to the airport a few years ago to tell them where I was going and hearing “yeah we are actually good enough now you don’t need to tell us”. Banking lumbers along but this is definitely something I’ve seen an improvement on in the last decade
- dmoy 3y ago
  > I'm very surprised since GS is generally known (IIRC) as shrewd deal makers. The allure of allying with Apple (and seeming innovative?) was just too strong, I guess -- they did a deal that was bad for them. Some of it may just be that GS doesn't really know wtf it's doing in the consumer side of finances. See e.g. their $billions of losses on their consumer banking product Macrus, for years and years.
dartos 3y ago
They are the poster child for vertical integration. And I mean they have the capital. It’d be funny if Apple became a bank before X.
- dmoy 3y ago
  Becoming a bank brings a whole stack of regulations that most companies would rather avoid like the plague. It's not glass-stegall level of forced separation anymore, but it's still more onerous than is probably worth it for Apple. But it's possible. You do see it sometimes, e.g. car companies (also worth noting though, most of those have been spun off).
  - dartos 3y ago
    For sure, but Apple isn’t most companies.
ksec 3y ago
AMEX isn't widely accepted in most part of the world. And given what they did and their demand with Goldman I doubt any other banks wants to work with them. It never made sense in the first place and the only reason why Goldman took the bait was because Goldman had zero Consumer Banking sector market share. So I am not surprised to hear that Apple is trying to do finance things in house. But with all the regulation burden again it is just another step in the wrong strategy, all in order to pursuit growth of revenue over everything.
delfinom 3y ago
That's the thing, Apple ended up with Goldman because all the usual credit card companies refused to work on Apple's terms. Apple went above and beyond a normal CC partnership by demanding terms on card issuance and card billing that typically is important in credit card servicing and risks. AMEX is probably not in any rush to take losses themselves like Goldman ended up doing. Not to mention Goldman has a big customer service issue because Apple's insistence that everyone is billed at the 1st of the month means customer service is flooded the first week and sitting idle the next 3 weeks.
- supertrope 3y ago
  > Apple's insistence that everyone is billed at the 1st of the month means customer service is flooded the first week and sitting idle the next 3 weeks. This seems counter productive. While simplicity of due dates on the first of the month is nice waiting on hold sucks. It’s similar to businesses that have a big marketing and discount push centered on a single day and overwhelm their sales funnel capacity.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

hardwaresofton 3y ago

It's up to GS to find a replacement[0]. I think Apple was quite gracious in letting them out (though depending on what news outlet you read the story is spun a couple different ways), but I'm very surprised since GS is generally known (IIRC) as shrewd deal makers. The allure of allying with Apple (and seeming innovative?) was just too strong, I guess -- they did a deal that was bad for them. As a holder of an Apple card, it's virtually only upside. I'm excited to find out who else is going to try and ride the coat tails of the #1/#2 company in the world and the benefits they'll offer to Apple customers. Worst case I lose a credit card -- no biggie. Upside, I continue to have access to the credit and maybe an even more prestigious banking institution (AMEX???). I really don't think that Apple would go ahead and buy up some local bank charters and build their own bank -- only so much antitrust attention a given company wants to invite! But if they did, I'd be excited to see what they'd build -- I bet it would be quite favorable for Apple customers. [0]: https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/goldman-sachs-faces-rocky-exit-apple-credit-card-partnership-2023-12-18/ https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/goldman-sachs-faces...

ghaff 3y ago
For me, pretty much the only upside of the Apple credit card is an incremental discount on a free credit card for occasional expensive product purchases. Otherwise I'd probably just as soon not have the additional credit card as it doesn't really make sense for me to use it for anything else.
- hardwaresofton 3y ago
  Ah you mean the 3% discount no Apple products? Because that's pretty decent. Though I think a bunch of other cards spike up to 3% from time to time. I personally like the access to extra credit, and I think that Apple's platform integration is pretty darn good. Apple's brand power seems to just... work out for people who stick with them (for now!). They're nowhere near AMEX's legendary customer-friendliness but... I'm willing to see if they try to get there!
  - ghaff 3y ago
    I'm not sure what legendary customer-friendliness means in the context of a credit card. If I want to dispute a charge, I've never really had an issue with calling up the bank and getting it resolved or, presumably, getting a new card issued. And the days where having a physical office in a foreign capital where I could cash a check or whatever is pretty much way in the past.
    - hombre_fatal 3y ago
      Good customer service can mean things like the people are pleasant, aren’t working from a stressed call center sweat shop, have the discretion to do what you need, have the knowledge to help you rather than just run some dialog tree. Discover is much better every time I call them than my Capital One card. And Schwab (bank) is amazing compared to my other bank. The customer agents put me on hold to ask someone in the engineering department to help me with a very weird Zelle bug. It was all so pleasant and made me really appreciate the service. It’s especially noticeable when you need help with a weird situation that takes time to explain and doesn’t fit into some FAQ. Meanwhile bad customer service is revolting on multiple levels, like revealing that the company wants to save money instead of spend on a good experience.
  - ipaddr 3y ago
    They closed my account for missing a payment. Not sure where the legendary customer service comment comes from perhaps their marketing is stronger than their offerings
    - 3y ago
- SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
  I have an Apple Card and never use it. It is handy to have the extra card for the sole purpose of not dinging my credit as much if I decide to carry a balance on the other card I use all the time.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    It's also handy to have a spare credit card in case something funky happens with fraud detection when you're traveling. (Or you just leave your card in a restaurant someplace.) I haven't had an issue of late but after I did have a problem a couple of times I always travel with at least one extra card these days.
    - SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
      True. It feels like banks at least in the States have improved their systems around this in recent years. I remember having to call them and tell them I was going overseas and where to about a decade ago. Nowadays they have more sophisticated systems that rarely if ever block me. Usually the problem is on the receiving end of the payment now if anything. Most recent annoyance was trying to book LATAM in Peru a couple of years ago in soles and getting blocked from doing that by LATAM themselves after triggering some weird anti fraud system
      - ghaff 3y ago
        No one even seems to want you (or provides a mechanism to) file international travel plans any longer. Been quite a few years since I've had an issue but I used to have some random declines for things like a $15 western US truck stop or a modest grocery purchase.
        SOLAR_FIELDS 3y ago
        So true! I remember calling Chase one day on the way to the airport a few years ago to tell them where I was going and hearing “yeah we are actually good enough now you don’t need to tell us”. Banking lumbers along but this is definitely something I’ve seen an improvement on in the last decade
dmoy 3y ago
> I'm very surprised since GS is generally known (IIRC) as shrewd deal makers. The allure of allying with Apple (and seeming innovative?) was just too strong, I guess -- they did a deal that was bad for them. Some of it may just be that GS doesn't really know wtf it's doing in the consumer side of finances. See e.g. their $billions of losses on their consumer banking product Macrus, for years and years.

dartos 3y ago

They are the poster child for vertical integration. And I mean they have the capital. It’d be funny if Apple became a bank before X.

dmoy 3y ago
Becoming a bank brings a whole stack of regulations that most companies would rather avoid like the plague. It's not glass-stegall level of forced separation anymore, but it's still more onerous than is probably worth it for Apple. But it's possible. You do see it sometimes, e.g. car companies (also worth noting though, most of those have been spun off).
- dartos 3y ago
  For sure, but Apple isn’t most companies.

ksec 3y ago

AMEX isn't widely accepted in most part of the world. And given what they did and their demand with Goldman I doubt any other banks wants to work with them. It never made sense in the first place and the only reason why Goldman took the bait was because Goldman had zero Consumer Banking sector market share. So I am not surprised to hear that Apple is trying to do finance things in house. But with all the regulation burden again it is just another step in the wrong strategy, all in order to pursuit growth of revenue over everything.

delfinom 3y ago

That's the thing, Apple ended up with Goldman because all the usual credit card companies refused to work on Apple's terms. Apple went above and beyond a normal CC partnership by demanding terms on card issuance and card billing that typically is important in credit card servicing and risks. AMEX is probably not in any rush to take losses themselves like Goldman ended up doing. Not to mention Goldman has a big customer service issue because Apple's insistence that everyone is billed at the 1st of the month means customer service is flooded the first week and sitting idle the next 3 weeks.

supertrope 3y ago
> Apple's insistence that everyone is billed at the 1st of the month means customer service is flooded the first week and sitting idle the next 3 weeks. This seems counter productive. While simplicity of due dates on the first of the month is nice waiting on hold sucks. It’s similar to businesses that have a big marketing and discount push centered on a single day and overwhelm their sales funnel capacity.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]