3 ms·

To a small extent you are correct, but a larger factor is automaton. It doesn't take that many people to grow food or extract resources anymore. The people that

To a small extent you are correct, but a larger factor is automaton. It doesn't take that many people to grow food or extract resources anymore. The people that don't exist don't need grocery stores, bars, restaurants, or barbers either. We would still be in this situation even without immigration or overseas trade.

nobodyandproud 3y ago
No way. https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/terrain-of-struggle.htm https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/terrain-of-struggle.htm https://www.farmworkerjustice.org/about-farmworker-justice/who-we-serve/ https://www.farmworkerjustice.org/about-farmworker-justice/w... I'm not knowledgeable on agriculture, but even a city-boy like myself has read-up on how much we rely on migrant labor during harvesting season.
- Loughla 3y ago
  Immigrants do those gigs because citizens won't. Those are not community sustaining jobs.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    Of course they’d do the jobs if immigrants weren’t driving down the floor. Look at European countries where agriculture is done by native born people.
    - tremon 3y ago
      I agree with your overall point, but not a great example: in NL we also import seasonal labour from Eastern European countries, for the exact same reason and with the exact same effect as you pointed out. Even when it's season all-year round (because we have greenhouses).
      - rayiner 3y ago
        I didn’t say it’s true of all European countries. To my knowledge, France or Italy for example isn’t nearly as reliant on seasonal farm labor. The Netherlands has always been more in the neoliberal side of the line for Europe.
    - danny_codes 3y ago
      https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ That seems unlikely. Americans don't want to do these jobs. And this article suggests that, were wages to rise sufficiently to entice Americans, the economics would justify automation. Besides, with the rate of progress in robotics, I doubt there will be much labor-intensive farm-work left to do in 10 years anyway.

nobodyandproud 3y ago

No way. https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/terrain-of-struggle.htm https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/terrain-of-struggle.htm https://www.farmworkerjustice.org/about-farmworker-justice/who-we-serve/ https://www.farmworkerjustice.org/about-farmworker-justice/w... I'm not knowledgeable on agriculture, but even a city-boy like myself has read-up on how much we rely on migrant labor during harvesting season.

Loughla 3y ago
Immigrants do those gigs because citizens won't. Those are not community sustaining jobs.
- rayiner 3y ago
  Of course they’d do the jobs if immigrants weren’t driving down the floor. Look at European countries where agriculture is done by native born people.
  - tremon 3y ago
    I agree with your overall point, but not a great example: in NL we also import seasonal labour from Eastern European countries, for the exact same reason and with the exact same effect as you pointed out. Even when it's season all-year round (because we have greenhouses).
    - rayiner 3y ago
      I didn’t say it’s true of all European countries. To my knowledge, France or Italy for example isn’t nearly as reliant on seasonal farm labor. The Netherlands has always been more in the neoliberal side of the line for Europe.
  - danny_codes 3y ago
    https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ That seems unlikely. Americans don't want to do these jobs. And this article suggests that, were wages to rise sufficiently to entice Americans, the economics would justify automation. Besides, with the rate of progress in robotics, I doubt there will be much labor-intensive farm-work left to do in 10 years anyway.