4 ms·

If you attach a load to an electrical line, then you are transferring power from the line for your use. This power is then no longer available for paying custo

If you attach a load to an electrical line, then you are transferring power from the line for your use. This power is then no longer available for paying customers to use. The load in question here is an inductive load, coupled through the air to the transmission line through well known physical principles. If caught, you could be charged with theft for sure. This is regardless of what people are doing or not doing in Belarus or Russia.

tankenmate 3y ago
If you harvest loss that was happening anyway then it isn't theft; you can't be charged for theft for something someone else threw away.
- dieortin 3y ago
  That’s not really true, you’re not harvesting “loss”. When you use that electromagnetic field to induce a current, you’re creating another electromagnetic field that opposes the first one, and which resists the current in the high voltage line. I’m not saying this is stealing, but it’s certainly not “harvesting loss”.
  - 127361 3y ago
    Well the ground is creating that exact opposing electric field anyway. If trees were planted to the same height as the wire, then the loss to the electric company is the same. He's just in effect increasing the height of the ground slightly and tapping the potential difference. You might as well park a car underneath it, attach a wire between the body and ground, and get same or better results, because the surface area is larger (capacitively coupled).
    - ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
      It's not, you're increasing the total resistance felt by the line. There is no free energy.
      - tankenmate 3y ago
        My point wasn't "there's no free energy", of course the energy has to come from somewhere. But transmission lines have parasitic loss anyway. My point is that rather than that energy being lost to the environment generally it can be directed to a specific circuit and used. Obviously though this is a much much lower amount of energy than can be "actively" harvested.
        ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
        Any amount of harvesting increases losses.
- ta1243 3y ago
  > you can't be charged for theft for something someone else threw away. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13037808 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13037808 A woman has admitted handling stolen goods after being accused of taking potato waffles, pies, and 100 packets of ham from a bin outside of a Tesco Express in Essex. But if something is thrown away, when is it illegal to take it? https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53724620 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53724620 Getting all your cardboard recycled may often seem like a pain, but there is big money to be made from all this so-called "beige gold". And sadly this is attracting criminals around the world. Thieves are making a fortune from stealing used cardboard that's been left out to be recycled, and selling it on. This means that legitimate recycling firms, and the city and other local authorities who take a cut from their sales, are missing out on tens of millions.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
127361 3y ago
Yes, caught for "stealing" 63 milliwatts of electricity, from charging the 88uF capacitor in that video from 426V to 489V over a period of 40 seconds. If that was running all year round it would consume 0.6kWh of electricity, which is probably capacitive losses to the surroundings and would be lost anyway. If it ever got to court, it would be thrown out instantly. This is the same mentality behind thousands of bullshit complaints to the FCC by radio amateurs because someone broke a petty rule somewhere, and it's why I want nothing to do with the amateur radio hobby at all. The vast majority of them the FCC ignores.
- Simulacra 3y ago
  Inductively. You're not actually splicing into the line, or damaging the equipment to retrieve the power. It would be the same as putting a rain barrel to capture water runoff from a public road.
  - dmd 3y ago
    which is, in fact, illegal in several western us states
    - kernelbugs 3y ago
      I'd imagine illegal for environmental reasons, however, rather than financial losses of some other party.
      - dmd 3y ago
        You would imagine wrongly, then. (At least in Colorado.)
      - CuriousCosmic 3y ago
        Eh it's both. Rain water collects through the watershed and somebody owns the rights to that water. So you can get into some really funky situations where you are "technically" stealing that water if you improve rainwater->groundwater retention on your property and as a result either have to dismantle the retention mechanisms or have to pay out damages.
cf1241290841 3y ago
This isnt a one way argument. If this is stealing so is pollution reducing throughput sabotage. Prosecuting one but not the other is a value judgement which gets us to the nature of laws. They are not an end in itself and often times so stupid they get changed when unintended implications become clear. edit: Someone posted https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/23799/has-anyone-been-caught-using-inductive-coupling-to-steal-power https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/23799/has-anyon... a bit down with the following comment that highlights this quite well. >At least here in germany, it is unclear whether "stealing" via induction is really stealing, the corresponding law explicitly states that a conductor is necessary. There have been lots of urban myths about it being forbidden, but the fact is that near lots of high power mid wave radio stations you automatically "steal" lots of power, e.g. just by having a neon tube installed in the "correct" direction.

tankenmate 3y ago

If you harvest loss that was happening anyway then it isn't theft; you can't be charged for theft for something someone else threw away.

dieortin 3y ago
That’s not really true, you’re not harvesting “loss”. When you use that electromagnetic field to induce a current, you’re creating another electromagnetic field that opposes the first one, and which resists the current in the high voltage line. I’m not saying this is stealing, but it’s certainly not “harvesting loss”.
- 127361 3y ago
  Well the ground is creating that exact opposing electric field anyway. If trees were planted to the same height as the wire, then the loss to the electric company is the same. He's just in effect increasing the height of the ground slightly and tapping the potential difference. You might as well park a car underneath it, attach a wire between the body and ground, and get same or better results, because the surface area is larger (capacitively coupled).
  - ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
    It's not, you're increasing the total resistance felt by the line. There is no free energy.
    - tankenmate 3y ago
      My point wasn't "there's no free energy", of course the energy has to come from somewhere. But transmission lines have parasitic loss anyway. My point is that rather than that energy being lost to the environment generally it can be directed to a specific circuit and used. Obviously though this is a much much lower amount of energy than can be "actively" harvested.
      - ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
        Any amount of harvesting increases losses.
ta1243 3y ago
> you can't be charged for theft for something someone else threw away. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13037808 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13037808 A woman has admitted handling stolen goods after being accused of taking potato waffles, pies, and 100 packets of ham from a bin outside of a Tesco Express in Essex. But if something is thrown away, when is it illegal to take it? https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53724620 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53724620 Getting all your cardboard recycled may often seem like a pain, but there is big money to be made from all this so-called "beige gold". And sadly this is attracting criminals around the world. Thieves are making a fortune from stealing used cardboard that's been left out to be recycled, and selling it on. This means that legitimate recycling firms, and the city and other local authorities who take a cut from their sales, are missing out on tens of millions.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

127361 3y ago

Yes, caught for "stealing" 63 milliwatts of electricity, from charging the 88uF capacitor in that video from 426V to 489V over a period of 40 seconds. If that was running all year round it would consume 0.6kWh of electricity, which is probably capacitive losses to the surroundings and would be lost anyway. If it ever got to court, it would be thrown out instantly. This is the same mentality behind thousands of bullshit complaints to the FCC by radio amateurs because someone broke a petty rule somewhere, and it's why I want nothing to do with the amateur radio hobby at all. The vast majority of them the FCC ignores.

Simulacra 3y ago
Inductively. You're not actually splicing into the line, or damaging the equipment to retrieve the power. It would be the same as putting a rain barrel to capture water runoff from a public road.
- dmd 3y ago
  which is, in fact, illegal in several western us states
  - kernelbugs 3y ago
    I'd imagine illegal for environmental reasons, however, rather than financial losses of some other party.
    - dmd 3y ago
      You would imagine wrongly, then. (At least in Colorado.)
    - CuriousCosmic 3y ago
      Eh it's both. Rain water collects through the watershed and somebody owns the rights to that water. So you can get into some really funky situations where you are "technically" stealing that water if you improve rainwater->groundwater retention on your property and as a result either have to dismantle the retention mechanisms or have to pay out damages.

cf1241290841 3y ago

This isnt a one way argument. If this is stealing so is pollution reducing throughput sabotage. Prosecuting one but not the other is a value judgement which gets us to the nature of laws. They are not an end in itself and often times so stupid they get changed when unintended implications become clear. edit: Someone posted https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/23799/has-anyone-been-caught-using-inductive-coupling-to-steal-power https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/23799/has-anyon... a bit down with the following comment that highlights this quite well. >At least here in germany, it is unclear whether "stealing" via induction is really stealing, the corresponding law explicitly states that a conductor is necessary. There have been lots of urban myths about it being forbidden, but the fact is that near lots of high power mid wave radio stations you automatically "steal" lots of power, e.g. just by having a neon tube installed in the "correct" direction.