4 ms·

Flight-Testing of Otto Lilienthal's Monoplane Design from 1893

44 points by croemer 3y ago

IlPeach 3y ago
Cool and all... But a video would have been interesting as well.
- soperj 3y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AZjozlvyZ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AZjozlvyZ4
coldcode 3y ago
In this modern age where inventions are generally built on those who came before, it's hard to imagine how inventive this design was with so little prior history (and how crazy it was to fly at all). I wonder if the Wright brothers would have been as successful as they were without Lilienthal thinking about it first.
- jandrese 3y ago
  I think the big thing this experiment showed was how important wind tunnel testing was. It also reinforced that the big problem wasn't getting a vehicle in the air, it was controlling it once you did so. This seems obvious now, but back in the 19th century the control schemes were often inadequate or poorly tested so flights usually ended in crashes that destroyed the vehicle. Yet another lesson from the wind tunnel testing. Even in this article they spend a lot of time trying to work out how to trim the glider. Once you add a gasoline engine to a glider trying to control it by swinging your legs around is just not adequate.
- JKCalhoun 3y ago
  I'ld say the Wright Flyer was a more direct descendent of Octave Chanute's work. Lilienthal's glider I think was a beautiful, art-nouveau-esque flying sculpture. What a tragic loss when he died.
  - soperj 3y ago
    Wasn't his work based on Lilienthal's though? edit: "Chanute was too old to fly, so he partnered with younger experimenters, including Augustus M. Herring and William Avery. In 1896, Chanute, Herring, and Avery tested a design based on the work of German aviation pioneer Otto Lilienthal, and of hang gliders of their own design. " - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octave_Chanute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octave_Chanute Looks like yes.
- carabiner 3y ago
  Everything was based on everything back then and if the Wrights hadn't flown, someone else would have within 5 years. Many teams were very close.
- trompetenaccoun 3y ago
  There was a lot of work before Lilienthal but he was the first to demonstrate heavier than air flight, which was a really important step in the history of human flight. The Wright brothers basically copied Chanute-Herring's design, as another user already pointed out. Their design was in turn an improvement on Lilienthal's. The Wrights had studied all of that, they said that Lilienthal inspired them to get into flight. So maybe without him, they would never have worked on it. That said, there were many others working on gliders both before and after Lilenthal. It's interesting seeing the progress over time, in retrospect. Makes you think about our modern age. The general public was extremely skeptical that "flying machines" would ever work. It's still the same today, with out modern tech innovation. We could have so much more progress if the majority were more open minded and into experimentation. They mock inventors until the invention actually works, and then after a few years everyone pretends like it had always been obvious.
  - AniseAbyss 3y ago
    The way I see it you could assassinate Bell or Watson and someone else would invent it just a little later.
  - picadores 3y ago
    This is why cultures with peaceful enduring martyr religions thrive when it comes to innovation. If its okay for the boss to suffer to get to a break-through and overcome adversity, its okay for you. Catholic saints, jesus, the Mahdi and the persecuted jews before you, they had it easy.
elephant81 3y ago
Could you model this and fly it in Microsoft Flight Sim?
- SonicScrub 3y ago
  There's enough info here to throw together a model using JSBSim and fly it in FlightGear
croemer 3y ago
Documentary (26min) https://youtu.be/7leqLcgIMCM?si=DpvZcMs2OezpfCml https://youtu.be/7leqLcgIMCM?si=DpvZcMs2OezpfCml
B1FF_PSUVM 3y ago
Found interesting this original Lilienthal quote (omitting the full explanation): "The following mistake is to be particularly avoided. [Right wing dips down]. The beginner involuntarily stretches his legs to the right [...] The correct thing to do is always to extend one’s legs toward the wing that is rising, and thus to press it down again." Sounds similar to the rear-wheel drive car control - steer it the "wrong" way

44 points by croemer 3y ago

IlPeach 3y ago

Cool and all... But a video would have been interesting as well.

soperj 3y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AZjozlvyZ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AZjozlvyZ4

coldcode 3y ago

In this modern age where inventions are generally built on those who came before, it's hard to imagine how inventive this design was with so little prior history (and how crazy it was to fly at all). I wonder if the Wright brothers would have been as successful as they were without Lilienthal thinking about it first.

jandrese 3y ago
I think the big thing this experiment showed was how important wind tunnel testing was. It also reinforced that the big problem wasn't getting a vehicle in the air, it was controlling it once you did so. This seems obvious now, but back in the 19th century the control schemes were often inadequate or poorly tested so flights usually ended in crashes that destroyed the vehicle. Yet another lesson from the wind tunnel testing. Even in this article they spend a lot of time trying to work out how to trim the glider. Once you add a gasoline engine to a glider trying to control it by swinging your legs around is just not adequate.
JKCalhoun 3y ago
I'ld say the Wright Flyer was a more direct descendent of Octave Chanute's work. Lilienthal's glider I think was a beautiful, art-nouveau-esque flying sculpture. What a tragic loss when he died.
- soperj 3y ago
  Wasn't his work based on Lilienthal's though? edit: "Chanute was too old to fly, so he partnered with younger experimenters, including Augustus M. Herring and William Avery. In 1896, Chanute, Herring, and Avery tested a design based on the work of German aviation pioneer Otto Lilienthal, and of hang gliders of their own design. " - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octave_Chanute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octave_Chanute Looks like yes.
carabiner 3y ago
Everything was based on everything back then and if the Wrights hadn't flown, someone else would have within 5 years. Many teams were very close.
trompetenaccoun 3y ago
There was a lot of work before Lilienthal but he was the first to demonstrate heavier than air flight, which was a really important step in the history of human flight. The Wright brothers basically copied Chanute-Herring's design, as another user already pointed out. Their design was in turn an improvement on Lilienthal's. The Wrights had studied all of that, they said that Lilienthal inspired them to get into flight. So maybe without him, they would never have worked on it. That said, there were many others working on gliders both before and after Lilenthal. It's interesting seeing the progress over time, in retrospect. Makes you think about our modern age. The general public was extremely skeptical that "flying machines" would ever work. It's still the same today, with out modern tech innovation. We could have so much more progress if the majority were more open minded and into experimentation. They mock inventors until the invention actually works, and then after a few years everyone pretends like it had always been obvious.
- AniseAbyss 3y ago
  The way I see it you could assassinate Bell or Watson and someone else would invent it just a little later.
- picadores 3y ago
  This is why cultures with peaceful enduring martyr religions thrive when it comes to innovation. If its okay for the boss to suffer to get to a break-through and overcome adversity, its okay for you. Catholic saints, jesus, the Mahdi and the persecuted jews before you, they had it easy.

elephant81 3y ago

Could you model this and fly it in Microsoft Flight Sim?

SonicScrub 3y ago
There's enough info here to throw together a model using JSBSim and fly it in FlightGear

croemer 3y ago

Documentary (26min) https://youtu.be/7leqLcgIMCM?si=DpvZcMs2OezpfCml https://youtu.be/7leqLcgIMCM?si=DpvZcMs2OezpfCml

B1FF_PSUVM 3y ago

Found interesting this original Lilienthal quote (omitting the full explanation): "The following mistake is to be particularly avoided. [Right wing dips down]. The beginner involuntarily stretches his legs to the right [...] The correct thing to do is always to extend one’s legs toward the wing that is rising, and thus to press it down again." Sounds similar to the rear-wheel drive car control - steer it the "wrong" way