3 ms·

Ha! That‘s a surprise to me, I never noticed. So, checking out Apple‘s first party apps it seems that checkboxes are either solid color round circles (just the

by arrrg 3y ago

Ha! That‘s a surprise to me, I never noticed. So, checking out Apple‘s first party apps it seems that checkboxes are either solid color round circles (just the outline when unchecked) with a checkmark in the middle (for multi selections in lists) or just toggles (typically in settings). Those round checkboxes I could only find being used for list selections (even when the list is horizontal, e.g. when sharing a photo). Toggles for settings. Radiobuttons seem to always come with one element already selected. I couldn’t find an instance of an empty list where you select one element. In those cases (e.g. when picking your WiFi network) they are just a solitary checkmark on the left without the circle. It‘s internally consistent (as I assume visionOS is, too) and the checkbox design in visionOS is actually closer to iOS than macOS. I assume that‘s the origin with quite some history behind it. Nearly two decades. I think the more exact statement would be that as far as iOS is concerned the checkbox already was dead for nearly two decades. As far as UI conventions go I‘m not too worried. What worries me a bit more that this much more clearly frames visionOS (as well as running iPad apps) as a iOS descendant when this might be the platform with the space to be more clearly in the tradition of the Mac.

Y-bar 3y ago
> Radiobuttons seem to always come with one element already selected. This Apple behaviour follows the HTML spec: > At all times, exactly one of the radio buttons in a set is checked. If none of the <INPUT> elements of a set of radio buttons specifies `CHECKED', then the user agent must check the first radio button of the set initially. https://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#radio https://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#radio
- Kwpolska 3y ago
  The current standard says something else: > If none of the radio buttons in a radio button group are checked, then they will all be initially unchecked in the interface, until such time as one of them is checked (either by the user or by script). That behaviour makes more sense for the Web, so that the user is required to make an explicit choice, and I'm not sure if browsers ever cared about this little part of the standard. When interacting with OS components, it makes sense that there's some default or already configured value. https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/input.html#radio-button-state-(type=radio) https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/input.html#radio-butt...
  - Y-bar 3y ago
    Huh, that's odd that it got changed. I can't think of any valid case where [no option] checked is part of a set of radio buttons. The user must be presented by a default, their entire reason for existing as is that one of them is checked all of the time. Microsoft's Windows guidelines implicitly says that one option must always be checked: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/win32/uxguide/ctrl-radio-buttons?redirectedfrom=MSDN#general https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/win32/uxguide/ctrl... > If none of the options is a valid choice, add another option to reflect this choice, such as None or Does not apply.
    - teo_zero 3y ago
      > I can't think of any valid case where [no option] checked is part of a set of radio buttons. The user must be presented by a default In a political vote, wouldn't that be untolerable bias?
      - Y-bar 3y ago
        I would never use a group of radio buttons in such a case, would you? But if hard pressed and not allowed to design a better UI I would do the following options with radio buttons: ( * ) blank vote ( ) Option A (potentially in random order vs other non-blank options) ( ) Option B (potentially in random order vs other non-blank options) ( ) Option ... n
        arrrg 3y ago
        Why would you not use radio buttons? And what pattern would you use instead? I don’t get it … Radio buttons are the correct metaphor for picking one option among a list of options. Why use something else? What use interface element do you think exists that works for this kind of interaction? I’m honestly confused why you think radio buttons are the wrong type of interface element for this interaction. What‘s the reasoning as to why this seems so obvious to you? I’m honestly just trying to understand you.
        3y ago

by arrrg 3y ago

Y-bar 3y ago

> Radiobuttons seem to always come with one element already selected. This Apple behaviour follows the HTML spec: > At all times, exactly one of the radio buttons in a set is checked. If none of the <INPUT> elements of a set of radio buttons specifies `CHECKED', then the user agent must check the first radio button of the set initially. https://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#radio https://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#radio

Kwpolska 3y ago
The current standard says something else: > If none of the radio buttons in a radio button group are checked, then they will all be initially unchecked in the interface, until such time as one of them is checked (either by the user or by script). That behaviour makes more sense for the Web, so that the user is required to make an explicit choice, and I'm not sure if browsers ever cared about this little part of the standard. When interacting with OS components, it makes sense that there's some default or already configured value. https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/input.html#radio-button-state-(type=radio) https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/input.html#radio-butt...
- Y-bar 3y ago
  Huh, that's odd that it got changed. I can't think of any valid case where [no option] checked is part of a set of radio buttons. The user must be presented by a default, their entire reason for existing as is that one of them is checked all of the time. Microsoft's Windows guidelines implicitly says that one option must always be checked: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/win32/uxguide/ctrl-radio-buttons?redirectedfrom=MSDN#general https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/win32/uxguide/ctrl... > If none of the options is a valid choice, add another option to reflect this choice, such as None or Does not apply.
  - teo_zero 3y ago
    > I can't think of any valid case where [no option] checked is part of a set of radio buttons. The user must be presented by a default In a political vote, wouldn't that be untolerable bias?
    - Y-bar 3y ago
      I would never use a group of radio buttons in such a case, would you? But if hard pressed and not allowed to design a better UI I would do the following options with radio buttons: ( * ) blank vote ( ) Option A (potentially in random order vs other non-blank options) ( ) Option B (potentially in random order vs other non-blank options) ( ) Option ... n
      - arrrg 3y ago
        Why would you not use radio buttons? And what pattern would you use instead? I don’t get it … Radio buttons are the correct metaphor for picking one option among a list of options. Why use something else? What use interface element do you think exists that works for this kind of interaction? I’m honestly confused why you think radio buttons are the wrong type of interface element for this interaction. What‘s the reasoning as to why this seems so obvious to you? I’m honestly just trying to understand you.
        3y ago