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Apple redecorates its iPhone prison to appease Europe
- cmiller1 3y agoSomething I've been wondering that I haven't seen answered: is the 1 million installs before the fee counting ALL installs, or just in the EU?
- ratg13 3y agoIn the same vein, how do you prevent people from installing your app? Let’s say you take your app down, but someone uploads it to other app stores. How are users given an easy way to avoid getting charged for future installs if they decide they want to stop shipping their product?
- Jcowell 3y ago> Let’s say you take your app down, but someone uploads it to other app stores. Then it would be your Apple Developer Account signing it right?
- avidphantasm 3y agoApple is acting more and like a rent seeker with these changes in the EU, but it is still hard to deny the tension between openness and safety for naïve users. I don’t want my elderly parents to have to worry about being scammed out of money by accidentally installing an app from a less-than-reputable app store. Having the platform be more open would significantly increase the likelihood of such scams (unless I am missing something).
- Retr0id 3y agoI wouldn't mind if there was something akin to Windows "S mode" (i.e. a mode that forbids 3rd party apps), set at time of purchase, and reconfigurable with a visit to an apple store.
- mike_hock 3y agoLol no, I don't think I should have to identify myself to Apple if I want to use a device I've obtained on the second hand market the way I see fit.
- Retr0id 3y agoThen don't buy second-hand devices in S-mode
- tourmalinetaco 3y agoAnd what if Apple sells in S-mode by default?
- Retr0id 3y agoThen that would suck, which is why it's not what I said.
- permo-w 3y agoreconfigurable with a visit to a physical Apple store is massive overkill. reconfigurable by reinitialising the device or changing a flag in BIOS are both more than enough to deter some demented pensioner from installing malware on their device
- bsaul 3y agoAlways the tradeof between freedom and security. There’s nothing more secure than living in a well-groomed prison. In this case though it’s pretty easy : don’t install third party app stores.
- Krasnol 3y agoI don't get this safety defense from the Apple side. They could allow a different store like F-Droid on Android. Nobody would force your elder parents to install that one. For every other app on the "original store", charge a one time fee for checking the security and be done with it. Implying that being open = being attacked is fearmongering.
- permo-w 3y agoit's a very clear example of a completely disingenuous defence from Apple. Apple could very easily please all parties if they wanted to. they could add safeguards like this and more to maintain the safety of vulnerable users, and still provide flexibility and freedom to advanced users. if you take their market dominance out of the equation, there would be no downside. however their market dominance is in the equation and it illustrates how fake of an argument it is
- Jedd 3y agoThis reminds me of wholinator2's comment two days ago on the 'Apple announces...' thread, regarding the received wisdom that Apple is more secure because it's a walled garden fallacy. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39141228 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39141228
- martin_drapeau 3y agoI totally agree. And most boomers I know have iPhones and iPads. I would hate to have to start supporting my parents using a different app store. Plus, I don't think the majority of iPhone customers are asking for openness.
- permo-w 3y agothen just have it off by default, changeable deep in settings? or let it be a permanent choice when you set up the device? or have a separate browser for side-loading that doesn't come pre-installed? the majority of chickens aren't asking to live free in the fields
- candiodari 3y agoOn hacker news they are. Plus there are already app stores, popular ones, that work by rooting ios devices. Surely that menas there's STRONG demand for just that.
- sumuyuda 3y agoThere are lots of scam apps in Apple’s AppStore with weekly subscriptions for basic functionality. Apple let’s them fly as they get a cut of it.
- permo-w 3y agoyou're missing something Apple could: hide a default off "install third party apps from safari" flag somewhere deep in the settings make it so you can only install 3rd party apps from the web using a special browser that doesn't come pre-installed, like in Fire TV OS have a "never allow third party installs" flag that can only be set when initialising the device (or in the BIOS that iOS devices don't have but should). if the user wants a walled garden, they can choose it for themselves these are simple options I thought of in 5 minutes that would likely solve 99% of cases, or at the very least absolve Apple of responsibility for them the world's richest and probably most capable tech company could permanently solve this problem with all the resources in their metaphorical left thumbnail, if they wanted to, but they don't want to, because this argument is an excuse for maintaining their market dominance, not a genuine concern
- TrianguloY 3y agoEven though I don't like that approach, the best option (as some others mention) is to have a device installation flag that allows/denies all third party things. When you buy an iPhone it will be off, and no matter what you do you won't be able to turn it on so you can "give it to your grandpa without fear". But for those that want, just allow reinstalling iOS (a full installation, deleting existing data) with the flag enabled. And just like that you can do whatever you want with your device, and "accepting the risks" of doing so. What if your grandpa is tricked into enabling it? Well, all the data will be deleted so there will be nothing to steal. Bought a used iPhone with the flag but still want the "security"? Just reinstall without it and done.
- Shawnj2 3y agoYeah android phones all have a 0 security mode and no one is saying Android devices are security nightmares.
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago> between openness and safety for naïve users Are you telling me that MacOS is insecure system?
- karmakaze 3y agoS-Mode on Windows is like Apple's walled garden, but it's only a default and the end-user can opt-out at will. That's not without similar downsides--just looked it up: > Windows 11 in S mode is a version of Windows 11 that's streamlined for security and performance, while providing a familiar Windows experience. To increase security, it allows only apps from Microsoft Store, and requires Microsoft Edge for safe browsing.
- rasz 3y agoYou need a Microsoft online account and a tool from Microsoft store to opt out :)
- bsaul 3y agoHope the EU sees those measures as the giant middle finger that they are.
- FreeTrade 3y agoSplit Apple into a software and a hardware company.
- KingOfCoders 3y agoIt depends on politicians: If they do something just to please the masses, they' ll let this slip. If they are doing if for ideological reasons, and it's about the power of a CEO vs. the power of the politician, then Apple will ultimately loose.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- martin_drapeau 3y agoiPhone Prison? That is the perspective of a very minor part of the market. I know hundreds of people who have iPhones and iPads. None have ever told me they fell imprisonned by their iPhone.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 3y agoNow go ask the ones who Apple forces to give 30% of their revenue to Apple.
- sbuk 3y agoThey are free not to develop for the platform; which is the very same argument as "you're free not to install an alternative App Store."
- dns_snek 3y ago> They are free not to develop for the platform Bad faith arguments never end. You don't like us dumping toxic waste in your rivers? That's easy, just move to a different town! This technology is too entrenched in our daily lives and Apple is too dominant for any business to be able to ignore their users, which is roughly half of the western population. Apple is however free to leave the EU if it deems these rules to be unreasonable.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jchw 3y ago> Apple doesn't disparage Chinese legal requirements in this manner. Its contempt is reserved for the EU. There we go. All of the whining about how much more secure things are with a forced walled garden all assume that Apple's intention is to serve the user with these limitations. It's not. Clinging to this idea with all of the evidence laid bare as it is today, is the epitome of cope. P.S.: Also, arguments like "Yes, but, making all of this money this way is why they're able to make the best phone" is literally just another "the ends justify the means" defense. It's probably not true, but if it was, that wouldn't necessarily justify what they did to get there.
- TheLoafOfBread 3y agoThe whole security question becomes irrelevant when MacOS is involved. So either MacOS is insecure (according to Apple's one reasoning) or Apple is just lying.
- Jcowell 3y agoApple has already talked about this during the Epic Games trial[1]: > As Apple has notched the most successful sales of Mac computers in history, its head of software engineering, Craig Federighi, says attacks have risen as well. "Today, we have a level of malware on the Mac that we don't find acceptable," > Each week, Apple identifies a couple pieces of malware on its own or with help of third parties, Federighi added, and it uses built-in systems to automatically remove them from customers' computers. But still, the malware can infect hundreds of thousands of computers before Apple stamps it out. Since last May, Federighi said, there have been 130 types of Mac malware, and one of them alone infected 300,000 systems. > Federighi said he believes Macs are still more secure than PCs, but he made clear that the Mac's facing a "significantly larger malware problem" than are iPhones , iPads and Apple's other devices. "It's an endless game of whack-a-mole." [1] https://www.cnet.com/news/privacy/apple-cites-significant-malware-on-mac-while-defending-ios-app-store-in-fortnite-trial/ https://www.cnet.com/news/privacy/apple-cites-significant-ma...
- jchw 3y ago
- alkonaut 3y agoI hope the EC sends this back to the kitchen right away. It’s not a solution that complies with the spirit of the law. Any such solution - just like properly following the GDPR for most adtech companies - would cost a massive chunk of revenue. This is an order to give up revenue. Apple thinks it can get away with 100% of its revenue and still be in compliance. That’s a fantasy.
- ChrisArchitect 3y ago[dupe] Lots more discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39132453 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39132453