3 ms·

A physical lock can get stuck. Especially on a moving trains with vibrations that could tense up the door. Weakened people, anxious people and other people wit

A physical lock can get stuck. Especially on a moving trains with vibrations that could tense up the door. Weakened people, anxious people and other people with disabilities need to be able to lock and unlock the doors without getting stuck. My guess is that the metaphor used for this train is too allow people full control over door lock. I don't think many people realise what it takes to build toilet in trains in a place like the UK where the disabled associations and protections are really strong.

lukan 3y ago
"Weakened people, anxious people and other people with disabilities need to be able to lock and unlock the doors without getting stuck." I have never experienced a simple lock to get stuck, but there are panic buttons inside the toilets as well. "I don't think many people realise what it takes to build toilet in trains in a place like the UK where the disabled associations and protections are really strong." And I don't think this is a bad thing.
- madsbuch 3y ago
  I never said it was a bad thing. I merely point out that is is ignorant to straight up believe that a "simple lock" is the solution without properly understanding the issue - just like you do.
  - lukan 3y ago
    Ah, I did not try to imply that you did. I was actually unsure how you meant it, but just wanted to emphasize anyway, that those regulations are very useful for disabled people. Because in most places, you would just get stuck using a wheelchair on your own. (German trains for example, in most trains you would just not get into - and if you managed to arrive at your destination, you might find out, that there are only stairs and no elevator, despite there should be one. But on this day they maybe changed the lane or whatever, they don't care. I noticed while travelling with a 2 person stroller)
justsomehnguy 3y ago
The trains in the past two centuries: OH NOES. Seriously, why it was not a problem for two centuries yet nowadays it's suddenly a new problem which requires a complex, electromechanical computer operated solution?
- doix 3y ago
  Because in the past people did not care about people with disabilities. It's like saying why we need wheel chair ramps when we didn't in the past. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the current implementation, but it makes sense to me to try and improve the world to make it more disability friendly.
  - zilti 3y ago
    But it isn't improving anything. Just like with the idiotic new door beeping the EU made mandatory, nobody can tell who it's actually for.
    - hlandau 3y ago
      Do you mean the exterior door beeping (officially known as a "hustle alarm" in the rail industry - now you know)? There has been a wave of adapting or replacing train door controllers to comply with the latest disability regulations recently. But all motorised train doors that I know of in the UK have had a hustle alarm. I don't much care for the new "compliant" controllers though, not least because the sounds they emanate are quite unpleasant and often much less nice than the ones emitted by the door systems they replaced. Older hustle alarms, etc. sounded like they were produced by something at least slightly polyphonic, whereas all of these new systems seem to produce all of their sounds via an ear-piercing piezo buzzer only. Besides the hustle alarm there's the sound to notify you the doors can now be opened (often not present on older, non-compliant systems, but now seemingly deemed required). I was always fond of the sound the Class 365/465 Networker used for this - an actual mechanical bell, which produced a pleasant sound. Of course it's now been torn out and retrofitted with an awful piezoelectric tone of the most ear-violating variety. It feels like nobody even tried to make these sounds pleasant, and probably went with a piezo buzzer rather than a mechanical bell because it costs less, and what hardware designer even knows how to integrate a mechanical bell these days? The closest to not having a hustle alarm I'm aware of in the UK is for London Underground and DLR stock, which basically starts to play the hustle alarm at the same time as the doors close, making it a bit of a token affair. Those interested in this sort of thing might be interested in this TfL report which actually studied in minute detail whether they should change the delay on the doors closing after the warning sounds. I encountered this once and was fascinated by the details. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/929610/door-closure-warning-sounds-on-dlr-report-2018-guidance.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... BTW, the applicable safety requirements standard for power-operated passenger train doors is GM/RT2473 (or its predecessor on older rolling stock, GO/OTS300). Don't ask me how I know this...
SoftTalker 3y ago
An electronic lock can get stuck also. At least with the physical lock/sliding lever you have a chance to be able to force it open.
lofaszvanitt 3y ago
Bullshite.
userbinator 3y ago
Weakened people, anxious people and other people with disabilities need to be able to lock and unlock the doors without getting stuck. Simple levers don't need much force to operate. The idea of a motorised door and the rest of that automated mechanism just scares me. There's so much more complexity and points of failure that I could imagine someone getting crushed if other interlocks fail, or otherwise having the door open / close unexpectedly.

lukan 3y ago

"Weakened people, anxious people and other people with disabilities need to be able to lock and unlock the doors without getting stuck." I have never experienced a simple lock to get stuck, but there are panic buttons inside the toilets as well. "I don't think many people realise what it takes to build toilet in trains in a place like the UK where the disabled associations and protections are really strong." And I don't think this is a bad thing.

madsbuch 3y ago
I never said it was a bad thing. I merely point out that is is ignorant to straight up believe that a "simple lock" is the solution without properly understanding the issue - just like you do.
- lukan 3y ago
  Ah, I did not try to imply that you did. I was actually unsure how you meant it, but just wanted to emphasize anyway, that those regulations are very useful for disabled people. Because in most places, you would just get stuck using a wheelchair on your own. (German trains for example, in most trains you would just not get into - and if you managed to arrive at your destination, you might find out, that there are only stairs and no elevator, despite there should be one. But on this day they maybe changed the lane or whatever, they don't care. I noticed while travelling with a 2 person stroller)

justsomehnguy 3y ago

The trains in the past two centuries: OH NOES. Seriously, why it was not a problem for two centuries yet nowadays it's suddenly a new problem which requires a complex, electromechanical computer operated solution?

doix 3y ago
Because in the past people did not care about people with disabilities. It's like saying why we need wheel chair ramps when we didn't in the past. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the current implementation, but it makes sense to me to try and improve the world to make it more disability friendly.
- zilti 3y ago
  But it isn't improving anything. Just like with the idiotic new door beeping the EU made mandatory, nobody can tell who it's actually for.
  - hlandau 3y ago
    Do you mean the exterior door beeping (officially known as a "hustle alarm" in the rail industry - now you know)? There has been a wave of adapting or replacing train door controllers to comply with the latest disability regulations recently. But all motorised train doors that I know of in the UK have had a hustle alarm. I don't much care for the new "compliant" controllers though, not least because the sounds they emanate are quite unpleasant and often much less nice than the ones emitted by the door systems they replaced. Older hustle alarms, etc. sounded like they were produced by something at least slightly polyphonic, whereas all of these new systems seem to produce all of their sounds via an ear-piercing piezo buzzer only. Besides the hustle alarm there's the sound to notify you the doors can now be opened (often not present on older, non-compliant systems, but now seemingly deemed required). I was always fond of the sound the Class 365/465 Networker used for this - an actual mechanical bell, which produced a pleasant sound. Of course it's now been torn out and retrofitted with an awful piezoelectric tone of the most ear-violating variety. It feels like nobody even tried to make these sounds pleasant, and probably went with a piezo buzzer rather than a mechanical bell because it costs less, and what hardware designer even knows how to integrate a mechanical bell these days? The closest to not having a hustle alarm I'm aware of in the UK is for London Underground and DLR stock, which basically starts to play the hustle alarm at the same time as the doors close, making it a bit of a token affair. Those interested in this sort of thing might be interested in this TfL report which actually studied in minute detail whether they should change the delay on the doors closing after the warning sounds. I encountered this once and was fascinated by the details. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/929610/door-closure-warning-sounds-on-dlr-report-2018-guidance.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... BTW, the applicable safety requirements standard for power-operated passenger train doors is GM/RT2473 (or its predecessor on older rolling stock, GO/OTS300). Don't ask me how I know this...

SoftTalker 3y ago

An electronic lock can get stuck also. At least with the physical lock/sliding lever you have a chance to be able to force it open.

lofaszvanitt 3y ago

Bullshite.

userbinator 3y ago

Weakened people, anxious people and other people with disabilities need to be able to lock and unlock the doors without getting stuck. Simple levers don't need much force to operate. The idea of a motorised door and the rest of that automated mechanism just scares me. There's so much more complexity and points of failure that I could imagine someone getting crushed if other interlocks fail, or otherwise having the door open / close unexpectedly.