4 ms·

Was there anything wrong, with the good old mechanical locks in train toilets? I have seen so many (elderly) people struggle to properly use the fancy electric

• madsbuch 3y ago
  My guess is that this type of round sliding door takes up much less space compared to solutions where you manually close the door. Unfortunately, manually round sliding doors can be very heavy to close. Especially for wheel chair users. My guess is that this is probably the only way, if you also want to support disabled users while ensuring them most agency in the intimate process of using a toilet.
  • hlandau 3y ago
    (Author here.) I have seen videos (not on trains) of one hybrid - a power-operated round sliding door, but with a physical lock on it, that hooks onto the door frame. So that would be one option. I think the current iteration is fine though - the replacement of the confusing "lock button" with the physical handle, even if emulated, is comprehensible to most, I would think. The "the door is now locked" voiceover also helps reassure people. (Most people are just trying to lock the door and not "fuzz test" the lock handle...)
    • lukan 3y ago
      Ah, you were the author as well. Have you noticed anyone from the train company about this flaw? (not saying that much would come out of it, but I think one should try)
    • zilti 3y ago
      I've just way too often seen these fake-physical locks be broken, or working in an unexpected way (with a fucking explanatory sticker with three lines of text explaining it). Who signs off on such crap?
      • lukan 3y ago
        "Who signs off on such crap?" Cynical me: people who benefit from the deal and don't have to use it themself.
  • lukan 3y ago
    This makes some sense, but I think you still could have used an actual mechanical lock on the door. So open and close still be buttons, but once the electric door closed, you engaged the lock (some electronics required there obviously, to tell the state to the system, so it does not try to open with the lock engaged).
• jeroenhd 3y ago
  I'm not elderly yet, but I have struggled with a similar train toilet door. _Why_ does this stupid thing need a lock button? In what scenario do I want to go into a toilet, hit the "close door" button, and _not_ want the door to be locked? It didn't help that the design of the buttons wasn't particularly clear, either. I can see the benefit of the electric opening/closing mechanism, because sliding doors are heavy, but the lock should've been a physical mechanism, or at least acted like one.
  • bemmu 3y ago
    Without the lock button you could hit the "close door" button and leave the toilet while it is closing, and then no-one would be able to enter to unlock it. But I agree something familiarly mechanical with the mechanism clearly visible would be better than any fancy solution.
    • lostlogin 3y ago
      > Without the lock button you could hit the "close door" button and leave the toilet while it is closing, and then no-one would be able to enter to unlock it. According to the article, you can do that anyway. “you can close the door, then hold the lever just beyond the point at which the locking pin could engage with it, but not to the point where it reads as “locked”. Then you can open the door, but the locking pin projects into thin air; thus the lever is free and can be moved to the locked position. The door close button remains active and you can then close the door. I confirmed that the door will then immediately lock as soon as the door is closed. Since I could do this and then jump out before the door closes, this is effectively a toilet DoS vulnerability on a train.”
  • madsbuch 3y ago
    A physical lock can get stuck. Especially on a moving trains with vibrations that could tense up the door. Weakened people, anxious people and other people with disabilities need to be able to lock and unlock the doors without getting stuck. My guess is that the metaphor used for this train is too allow people full control over door lock. I don't think many people realise what it takes to build toilet in trains in a place like the UK where the disabled associations and protections are really strong.
• PeterisP 3y ago
  The context here is toilets specifically designed for disabled people. Some disabilities make it very hard to operate latches or levers, and in that context pushing a button is considered the more accessible control option.
  • Kwpolska 3y ago
    How common are those disabilities, compared to people confused by the buttons? Is turning the lock really that different to pushing a button?
    • lucb1e 3y ago
      > Is turning the lock really that different to pushing a button? I don't know what type of hypothetical disability the person above means, but I know the problem of round doorknobs and gloves so I suppose something like that? But a horizontal sliding lock as seen on many types of bathroom stalls already should be similar enough that anyone who can push a button in the right direction can also push these in the right direction However, does a mechanical lock glow and look fancy when you can sell your electronic high-tech locking system to the train manufacturer??
    • PeterisP 3y ago
      They are rare, but if you build a specific toilet targeted for people with disabilities (next to ordinary, simpler, smaller toilets) then you generally try to make it as accessible as you reasonably can and target a wide variety of different disabilities. Such toilets tend to have many adaptations e.g. different controls for faucets on the sink, different handling of toilet paper, different dimensions and spacing, etc.; and yes, for some people a button instead of a knob that needs to be turned is all the difference in the world, as they simply can't turn a knob. For a trivial (but not nearly the only) scenario imagine a person with prosthetic hands, or extremely limited grip strength caused by e.g. some cases of cerebral palsy.
    • yanellena 3y ago
      There are other benefits to this too. With an electronic lock you can display the state of the toilet to other passengers on digital signage screens onboard the train. You could do this with physical locks but it would likely be more costly.
• userbinator 3y ago
  Was there anything wrong, with the good old mechanical locks in train toilets? The only thing wrong was the fact that they weren't "modern" enough, i.e. too simple and predictable. That said, you can easily "DoS" a mechanical lock too, if it doesn't have any form of interlock. Everyone who has locked themselves out of cars and buildings (e.g. leaving the key inside) will clearly remember this.
• ozim 3y ago
  Just as thought excercise: - mechanical cannot be easily unlocked by conductors in case of emergency - mechanical would break more often because people don’t care and would push on door even if it is occupied. - in a hurry might be more convenient to simply push button assuming one is already familiar with the system. - having only buttons it is easier to keep it clean and having people less contact with door handles/latches. - can be automatically locked on stations so people use them between stations so you don’t get foul smells while boarding and waiting