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BTW. Motif (on X11) used small bevelled squares for check boxes and a bevelled diamond shape for radio buttons. There was no checkmark, cross or coloured circle

BTW. Motif (on X11) used small bevelled squares for check boxes and a bevelled diamond shape for radio buttons. There was no checkmark, cross or coloured circle. Bevelled in was active. Bevelled out was not. Example: https://www.oreilly.com/openbook/motif/vol6a/Vol6a_html/V6a.03.06.eps.png https://www.oreilly.com/openbook/motif/vol6a/Vol6a_html/V6a....

josephg 3y ago
For some reason I've always found this design incredibly ugly. My eyes just hate it for some reason.
- Findecanor 3y ago
  When GTK 1.x and WindowMaker copied Motif's diamond, I hacked/themed both for personal use to make it a circle. SGI had their own version of Motif with a look that was more like Mac and Windows of the time.
- Nevermark 3y ago
  Nearly all gray, with flat black, no gradients to smooth anything. Gives the impression of harsh lighting. Very sharp-edged 3D boxy window design creates heavy cumbersome feel. Inconsistent pixelly fonts. Oddly aligned text in button. Diamonds happen to be a shape that maximizes pixelation. Indent in vs. out is cognitive heavy to process, relative to something less pure-dual. Black selection border doesn't have consistent widths. Separation line between big button and little buttons, despite obvious size and shape differences that already make that distinction. Extra little borders defining window box corners from horizontal and vertical borders - a distinction that surely didn't need highlighting. No rounding. (Granted, rounding would look pixelated.) TLDR; It looks like an industrial lead brick you really don't want to drop onto your foot.
  - FrontierProject 3y ago
    > Extra little borders defining window box corners from horizontal and vertical borders - a distinction that surely didn't need highlighting. This actually designates an area where you can click and drag to resize the window. I'd argue that this behavior has become a ubiquitous expectation because of this design.
    - deathanatos 3y ago
      What kills me about macOS is that the window border is now pixel thin, but macOS simultaneously lacks the keyboard shortcuts that exist in Linux for easily resizing. Like, a 1px border isn't too back when I have a keyboard shortcut that makes a full 1/9th or so of the window's area the effective border. But when it's exactly a pixel — and combined with macOS's cursor's hotspot not being on the cursor tip … it just takes what should be simple to way harder than it need be.
      - Nevermark 3y ago
        So true. And then there are the too skinny to grab scroll thumbs, which are also invisible without gratuitous scrolling. And they disappear quite quickly. Three alternate solutions: 1) Long hover (1/4 sec?) near window edge, to make edge grabbier. Long hover (1/4 sec?) near scrolling side for scroll bar to appear. 2) Pressing one of the modifier keys to make edges and scroll bars appear and be grabbable. 3) Toggle keyboard command, that makes edges slightly thicker and holds scroll thumbs visible, vs. hiding them.
  - kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
    The Motif colors were all configurable and the system defaults varied by vendor. You got a mix of beiges on the DEC windows version.
  - dfox 3y ago
    > Inconsistent pixelly fonts. Black selection border doesn't have consistent widths. This is because the screenshot is apparently rasterized from data for print version (".eps.png") at a resolution that does not match the resolution of the two bitmap images in it.
- mwcampbell 3y ago
  To clarify, are you referring only to Motif, or the Windows 9x classic look as well?
- DonHopkins 3y ago
  "X will not run in these 4 bit overlay planes. This is because I’m using Motif, which is so sophisticated it forces you to put a 1" thick border around each window in case your mouse is so worthless you can’t hit anything you aim at, so you need widgets designed from the same style manual as the runway at Moscow International Airport. My program has a browser that actually uses different colors to distinguish different kinds of nodes. Unlike a PC Jr, however, this workstation with $150,000 worth of 28 bits-per-pixel supercharged display hardware cannot display more than 16 colors at a time. If you’re using the Motif self-abuse kit, asking for the 17th color causes your program to crash horribly." -Steve Strassman, Unix-Haters Handbook https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25734498 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25734498 https://medium.com/@donhopkins/the-x-windows-disaster-128d398ebd47 https://medium.com/@donhopkins/the-x-windows-disaster-128d39...
Kwpolska 3y ago
Early builds of Windows 95 had diamonds too: http://toastytech.com/guis/chic58test.png http://toastytech.com/guis/chic58test.png

josephg 3y ago

For some reason I've always found this design incredibly ugly. My eyes just hate it for some reason.

Findecanor 3y ago
When GTK 1.x and WindowMaker copied Motif's diamond, I hacked/themed both for personal use to make it a circle. SGI had their own version of Motif with a look that was more like Mac and Windows of the time.
Nevermark 3y ago
Nearly all gray, with flat black, no gradients to smooth anything. Gives the impression of harsh lighting. Very sharp-edged 3D boxy window design creates heavy cumbersome feel. Inconsistent pixelly fonts. Oddly aligned text in button. Diamonds happen to be a shape that maximizes pixelation. Indent in vs. out is cognitive heavy to process, relative to something less pure-dual. Black selection border doesn't have consistent widths. Separation line between big button and little buttons, despite obvious size and shape differences that already make that distinction. Extra little borders defining window box corners from horizontal and vertical borders - a distinction that surely didn't need highlighting. No rounding. (Granted, rounding would look pixelated.) TLDR; It looks like an industrial lead brick you really don't want to drop onto your foot.
- FrontierProject 3y ago
  > Extra little borders defining window box corners from horizontal and vertical borders - a distinction that surely didn't need highlighting. This actually designates an area where you can click and drag to resize the window. I'd argue that this behavior has become a ubiquitous expectation because of this design.
  - deathanatos 3y ago
    What kills me about macOS is that the window border is now pixel thin, but macOS simultaneously lacks the keyboard shortcuts that exist in Linux for easily resizing. Like, a 1px border isn't too back when I have a keyboard shortcut that makes a full 1/9th or so of the window's area the effective border. But when it's exactly a pixel — and combined with macOS's cursor's hotspot not being on the cursor tip … it just takes what should be simple to way harder than it need be.
    - Nevermark 3y ago
      So true. And then there are the too skinny to grab scroll thumbs, which are also invisible without gratuitous scrolling. And they disappear quite quickly. Three alternate solutions: 1) Long hover (1/4 sec?) near window edge, to make edge grabbier. Long hover (1/4 sec?) near scrolling side for scroll bar to appear. 2) Pressing one of the modifier keys to make edges and scroll bars appear and be grabbable. 3) Toggle keyboard command, that makes edges slightly thicker and holds scroll thumbs visible, vs. hiding them.
- kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
  The Motif colors were all configurable and the system defaults varied by vendor. You got a mix of beiges on the DEC windows version.
- dfox 3y ago
  > Inconsistent pixelly fonts. Black selection border doesn't have consistent widths. This is because the screenshot is apparently rasterized from data for print version (".eps.png") at a resolution that does not match the resolution of the two bitmap images in it.
mwcampbell 3y ago
To clarify, are you referring only to Motif, or the Windows 9x classic look as well?
DonHopkins 3y ago
"X will not run in these 4 bit overlay planes. This is because I’m using Motif, which is so sophisticated it forces you to put a 1" thick border around each window in case your mouse is so worthless you can’t hit anything you aim at, so you need widgets designed from the same style manual as the runway at Moscow International Airport. My program has a browser that actually uses different colors to distinguish different kinds of nodes. Unlike a PC Jr, however, this workstation with $150,000 worth of 28 bits-per-pixel supercharged display hardware cannot display more than 16 colors at a time. If you’re using the Motif self-abuse kit, asking for the 17th color causes your program to crash horribly." -Steve Strassman, Unix-Haters Handbook https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25734498 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25734498 https://medium.com/@donhopkins/the-x-windows-disaster-128d398ebd47 https://medium.com/@donhopkins/the-x-windows-disaster-128d39...

Kwpolska 3y ago

Early builds of Windows 95 had diamonds too: http://toastytech.com/guis/chic58test.png http://toastytech.com/guis/chic58test.png