6 ms·

Linux for Playstation 2

136 points by swatson741 3y ago

pjmlp 3y ago
It was a great indie development community, gaining experience on what it meant a console like dev experience, sadly spoiled by tons of folks porting emulators instead of being creative. Most like the reasoning behind PS3 Linux no longer having GPU libraries like the PS2Linux, only 2D acceleration, and eventually migration to FreeBSD as basis for PlayStation OS from PS4 onwards. Still have my PS2Linux kit.
- incrudible 3y ago
  Was it not always about a tax loophole that applied to PCs, that went away during the PS3 era? https://www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/why-the-ps3-is-a-computer-when-it-really-isnt.100750/ https://www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/why-the-ps3-is-a-comp...
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    PS2Linux was the evolution of Net Yaroze introduced in the PlayStation 1. What PlayStation had into that sense was the demo disc shipped with the Playstation 2, that had a BASIC environment like on the 8 bit home computer days, called Yabasic. Here is a demo about it, "How/Why Sony Classed the PlayStation 2 as a Home Computer - Demo of Yabasic" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnXpzczPc38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnXpzczPc38
    - sumtechguy 3y ago
      I have both. I had a lot more fun with the Yaroze. Even splashed out the extra cash to get codewarrior for it.
- goosedragons 3y ago
  The PS3 also uses FreeBSD as the basis for it's OS. They don't want to use Linux for the main OS because of the license.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- badsectoracula 3y ago
  > tons of folks porting emulators instead of being creative On one hand this is something that annoys me a bit to this day - i am into original xbox homebrew games (bought a modded one last year specifically for this) and pretty much 99.999% of the homebrew software is emulators. While i can see the point until around mid-2000s due to the available hardware back then, emulators are by far the main target for any jailbroken console to this day[0], including modern ones - and i fail to see the point for that considering the availability and TV connectivity of cheap PCs (including some who are very small and yet very fast like those by beelink) or even Raspberry Pis, etc (not to mention way more versatile). On the other hand it is because of the effort people put into these projects that everyone else who isn't interested into emulators (e.g. me) still have the tools and ability to use the hardware as they please instead of it becoming useless ewaste. [0] the main exception, for whatever reason, seems to be Dreamcast. And very old consoles like NES, SNES, Gameboy, etc of course.
  - coldpie 3y ago
    > and i fail to see the point for that considering the availability and TV connectivity of cheap PCs It's a fair point. I think part of the appeal is, after you've finished the hack, you get both the emulators and the "just works" experience of a console. The controllers are high quality, sync correctly, and don't get disconnected; the UI is sane and just works out of the box; it will negotiate with any TV and audio setup correctly; you don't have to deal with OS updates breaking your setup or fiddle with any CLI-commands. > everyone else who isn't interested into emulators (e.g. me) You might get a kick out of this, I made two homebrew games for PSP back in high school. They run well in PPSSPP, if you don't have the original hardware handy. I'm still quite proud of them. https://coldpie.itch.io/ https://coldpie.itch.io/
    - badsectoracula 3y ago
      I think most jailbroken consoles these days are more of a PITA to get working though - e.g. updates will either have stopped anyway or if they're still been released, they may stop the jailbreak from working. Older consoles' gamepads also tend to not be in a great quality after deteriorating over the years (in fact the gamepad i got with my og xbox was in terrible condition with a non-working left trigger, though fortunately RetroFighters made a new one which i preordered), etc. Personally i think an emulator running on a tiny PC or Raspberry Pi connected to a TV with HDMI is going to be much easier and viable long term. Though if you already have the console sitting there anyway might as well use it, but i think even the "easiest" option - Xbox Series X/S (which officially allows you to install your own programs) - is still not that seamless. > You might get a kick out of this, I made two homebrew games for PSP back in high school. They run well in PPSSPP, if you don't have the original hardware handy. Neat, i downloaded them and i'll check them out. Note BTW that the dev diary links seem to be broken for both games.
- IntelMiner 3y ago
  The PS3 also ran FreeBSD as its base OS
tetris11 3y ago
It looks like it's EOL. Can they not merge their changes upstream?
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Not at all, most of it used some blobs that were under Sony's NDA. Note that nowadays Sony uses FreeBSD and clang for a reason.
- duskwuff 3y ago
  > It looks like it's EOL. "EOL" would imply that it ever received any ongoing support. The impression I get is more that Sony treated this more like a game release -- once the discs went out the door, that was it.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    The community was alive during around 7 years, and there were SCEE people active in the forums on Sony's payroll, like sarahe.
- uyjulian 3y ago
  Someone did a port to a newer Linux base, and upstreaming is in progress: https://github.com/frno7/linux https://github.com/frno7/linux
Slapshot_gd 3y ago
I absolutely loved playing around with that kit, I remember porting our IPTV middleware to it as a PoC a long time ago, was fun for demos :)
nazgulsenpai 3y ago
PS2 Linux is one of those things I knew about at the time, was super interested in yet never pursued (didn't have the means to) and now wish I had. It doesn't seem like a very practical computing environment even for the time, but that's part of what makes it so damn interesting.
pbiggar 3y ago
I worked on this a bit! As an summer intern at SCEE in 2004, I port the Eyetoy driver to PS2 linux. Sadly, it had some legal issues due to some proprietary code in the original drivers, and it ended up not getting released.
Jasper_ 3y ago
If you didn't know, this was primarily a tax dodge for the EU. Since it ran Linux, they felt they could classify the PlayStation 2 as a general-purpose computer, which receives a lower tariff rate than game consoles. PlayStation 3 had OtherOS for the same purpose, until the EU rejected the claim and reclassified it as a game console, and then Sony pulled support for OtherOS (it also being primarily a vehicle for piracy certainly didn't help).
- gumby 3y ago
  I can tell you that support for this went all the way up to Ken Kutaragi. I discussed it with him. He was also responsible for the Ethernet port. He had real vision for the platform. It was more than a tax dodge.
  - lupire 3y ago
    If the CEO supported it, why didn't it happen? CEOs like tax dodges and plausible deniability.
    - gumby 3y ago
      What do you mean? Sony did release Linux for the PS2
- ppseafield 3y ago
  For the PlayStation 3, another thing driving Linux's removal was that organizations were buying PS3s to use in data centers. But Sony sold them at a loss (IIRC over $100/unit loss, even being sold at $600 twenty years ago) and intended to make it up on revenue from games sold. They also didn't have nearly enough at launch because they were using a brand new processor (designed with help from IBM) and a brand new Blu-Ray disc format. That slowed down their initial production, and it had to launch in time to compete with the Xbox 360 (Pre-Christmas 2005), which also had a HD-DVD attachment. Notably, the PS3 at launch was actually cheaper than some dedicated Blu-ray players, so some home theater enthusiasts bought them (few to no games), eating into Sony's revenue even more. It took several years for the PS3 to be profitable, but it won the format war.
genericuser123 3y ago
I'm always happy to see Linux in unexpected places.
snvzz 3y ago
Related, NetBSD had[0] a port for ps2 at some point. 0. http://www.jp.netbsd.org/ports/playstation2/ http://www.jp.netbsd.org/ports/playstation2/

136 points by swatson741 3y ago

It was a great indie development community, gaining experience on what it meant a console like dev experience, sadly spoiled by tons of folks porting emulators instead of being creative. Most like the reasoning behind PS3 Linux no longer having GPU libraries like the PS2Linux, only 2D acceleration, and eventually migration to FreeBSD as basis for PlayStation OS from PS4 onwards. Still have my PS2Linux kit.

incrudible 3y ago
Was it not always about a tax loophole that applied to PCs, that went away during the PS3 era? https://www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/why-the-ps3-is-a-computer-when-it-really-isnt.100750/ https://www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/why-the-ps3-is-a-comp...
- pjmlp 3y ago
  PS2Linux was the evolution of Net Yaroze introduced in the PlayStation 1. What PlayStation had into that sense was the demo disc shipped with the Playstation 2, that had a BASIC environment like on the 8 bit home computer days, called Yabasic. Here is a demo about it, "How/Why Sony Classed the PlayStation 2 as a Home Computer - Demo of Yabasic" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnXpzczPc38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnXpzczPc38
  - sumtechguy 3y ago
    I have both. I had a lot more fun with the Yaroze. Even splashed out the extra cash to get codewarrior for it.
goosedragons 3y ago
The PS3 also uses FreeBSD as the basis for it's OS. They don't want to use Linux for the main OS because of the license.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
badsectoracula 3y ago
> tons of folks porting emulators instead of being creative On one hand this is something that annoys me a bit to this day - i am into original xbox homebrew games (bought a modded one last year specifically for this) and pretty much 99.999% of the homebrew software is emulators. While i can see the point until around mid-2000s due to the available hardware back then, emulators are by far the main target for any jailbroken console to this day[0], including modern ones - and i fail to see the point for that considering the availability and TV connectivity of cheap PCs (including some who are very small and yet very fast like those by beelink) or even Raspberry Pis, etc (not to mention way more versatile). On the other hand it is because of the effort people put into these projects that everyone else who isn't interested into emulators (e.g. me) still have the tools and ability to use the hardware as they please instead of it becoming useless ewaste. [0] the main exception, for whatever reason, seems to be Dreamcast. And very old consoles like NES, SNES, Gameboy, etc of course.
- coldpie 3y ago
  > and i fail to see the point for that considering the availability and TV connectivity of cheap PCs It's a fair point. I think part of the appeal is, after you've finished the hack, you get both the emulators and the "just works" experience of a console. The controllers are high quality, sync correctly, and don't get disconnected; the UI is sane and just works out of the box; it will negotiate with any TV and audio setup correctly; you don't have to deal with OS updates breaking your setup or fiddle with any CLI-commands. > everyone else who isn't interested into emulators (e.g. me) You might get a kick out of this, I made two homebrew games for PSP back in high school. They run well in PPSSPP, if you don't have the original hardware handy. I'm still quite proud of them. https://coldpie.itch.io/ https://coldpie.itch.io/
  - badsectoracula 3y ago
    I think most jailbroken consoles these days are more of a PITA to get working though - e.g. updates will either have stopped anyway or if they're still been released, they may stop the jailbreak from working. Older consoles' gamepads also tend to not be in a great quality after deteriorating over the years (in fact the gamepad i got with my og xbox was in terrible condition with a non-working left trigger, though fortunately RetroFighters made a new one which i preordered), etc. Personally i think an emulator running on a tiny PC or Raspberry Pi connected to a TV with HDMI is going to be much easier and viable long term. Though if you already have the console sitting there anyway might as well use it, but i think even the "easiest" option - Xbox Series X/S (which officially allows you to install your own programs) - is still not that seamless. > You might get a kick out of this, I made two homebrew games for PSP back in high school. They run well in PPSSPP, if you don't have the original hardware handy. Neat, i downloaded them and i'll check them out. Note BTW that the dev diary links seem to be broken for both games.
IntelMiner 3y ago
The PS3 also ran FreeBSD as its base OS

tetris11 3y ago

It looks like it's EOL. Can they not merge their changes upstream?

pjmlp 3y ago
Not at all, most of it used some blobs that were under Sony's NDA. Note that nowadays Sony uses FreeBSD and clang for a reason.
duskwuff 3y ago
> It looks like it's EOL. "EOL" would imply that it ever received any ongoing support. The impression I get is more that Sony treated this more like a game release -- once the discs went out the door, that was it.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  The community was alive during around 7 years, and there were SCEE people active in the forums on Sony's payroll, like sarahe.
uyjulian 3y ago
Someone did a port to a newer Linux base, and upstreaming is in progress: https://github.com/frno7/linux https://github.com/frno7/linux

Slapshot_gd 3y ago

I absolutely loved playing around with that kit, I remember porting our IPTV middleware to it as a PoC a long time ago, was fun for demos :)

nazgulsenpai 3y ago

PS2 Linux is one of those things I knew about at the time, was super interested in yet never pursued (didn't have the means to) and now wish I had. It doesn't seem like a very practical computing environment even for the time, but that's part of what makes it so damn interesting.

pbiggar 3y ago

I worked on this a bit! As an summer intern at SCEE in 2004, I port the Eyetoy driver to PS2 linux. Sadly, it had some legal issues due to some proprietary code in the original drivers, and it ended up not getting released.

Jasper_ 3y ago

If you didn't know, this was primarily a tax dodge for the EU. Since it ran Linux, they felt they could classify the PlayStation 2 as a general-purpose computer, which receives a lower tariff rate than game consoles. PlayStation 3 had OtherOS for the same purpose, until the EU rejected the claim and reclassified it as a game console, and then Sony pulled support for OtherOS (it also being primarily a vehicle for piracy certainly didn't help).

gumby 3y ago
I can tell you that support for this went all the way up to Ken Kutaragi. I discussed it with him. He was also responsible for the Ethernet port. He had real vision for the platform. It was more than a tax dodge.
- lupire 3y ago
  If the CEO supported it, why didn't it happen? CEOs like tax dodges and plausible deniability.
  - gumby 3y ago
    What do you mean? Sony did release Linux for the PS2
ppseafield 3y ago
For the PlayStation 3, another thing driving Linux's removal was that organizations were buying PS3s to use in data centers. But Sony sold them at a loss (IIRC over $100/unit loss, even being sold at $600 twenty years ago) and intended to make it up on revenue from games sold. They also didn't have nearly enough at launch because they were using a brand new processor (designed with help from IBM) and a brand new Blu-Ray disc format. That slowed down their initial production, and it had to launch in time to compete with the Xbox 360 (Pre-Christmas 2005), which also had a HD-DVD attachment. Notably, the PS3 at launch was actually cheaper than some dedicated Blu-ray players, so some home theater enthusiasts bought them (few to no games), eating into Sony's revenue even more. It took several years for the PS3 to be profitable, but it won the format war.

genericuser123 3y ago

I'm always happy to see Linux in unexpected places.

snvzz 3y ago

Related, NetBSD had[0] a port for ps2 at some point. 0. http://www.jp.netbsd.org/ports/playstation2/ http://www.jp.netbsd.org/ports/playstation2/