4 ms·

I may be missing a fundamental point of your comment or from the linked content, but given the minuscule number of users who’d be concerned with this in practic

by Mtinie 3y ago

I may be missing a fundamental point of your comment or from the linked content, but given the minuscule number of users who’d be concerned with this in practical presentation, I sincerely hope that the UXers involved didn’t optimize for this use case.

al_borland 3y ago
From the OP’s article: >Apple is the first major operating system vendor who had abandoned a four-decades-long tradition. Their new visionOS — for the first time in the history of Apple — will have round checkboxes. So the death of the square checkbox they are predicting is only in the context of VisionOS. Apple’s HIG explain why this decision was made (my link), so I don’t think it is part of a larger trend and we shouldn’t expect it to impact anyone not using VisionOS, or other such headsets with eye tracking. It was done for technical reasons relating how the person will interact with the device, not style reasons.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ludwik 3y ago
    I don't understand why some people feel the need to attack the only person in this thread who provided context about the change being discussed. You may agree with Apple's decision, or you may not. You might believe that it will have far-reaching negative consequences for the entire industry. Regardless, al_borland sharing the reasoning behind the decision (and linking to the source) is valuable and is the opposite of 'living under a rock'.
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      I'm not disputing the logical reasoning behind circular checkboxes, I'm saying that if Apple does something then everyone else will follow suit regardless of any reasons. Apple is the fashion leader and trend setter of the IT industry, everyone else will follow them. It's appropriate to ring the death bell for square checkboxes, given that track record.
      - ludwik 3y ago
        Of course, you can have your view and express it in this thread. I just don't get why that needs to come with being rude and confrontational towards the person who simply provided important context.
        thaumasiotes 3y ago
        He did more than that. He also assured everyone that this was an isolated phenomenon: >>> Apple’s HIG explain why this decision was made (my link), so I don’t think it is part of a larger trend and we shouldn’t expect it to impact anyone not using VisionOS, or other such headsets with eye tracking. Dalewyn's response makes perfect sense in this context.
        Dalewyn 3y ago
        Exactly. Apple's influence with regards to design and aesthetics is unparalleled, to downplay it is either straight ignorance or naivety. Everything from naming schemes (iPhone -> Core i3/5/7/9, Macbook -> ASUS Zenbook, et al.), to desktop interfaces (MacOS -> Windows 11 Explorer, GNOME), to phone interfaces (iOS -> Android), to connectivity (rather the lack thereof), to form factor (Macbook Air -> Intel ultrabooks and EVO), to entire markets (smartphones, tablets, portable music players) and more have all been defined or redefined and led by Apple. To suggest anything Apple does concerning design would be an isolated incident is ridiculous. If Apple says "jump", the IT industry asks "how high?".
        ludwik 3y ago
        This is a factual statement. As it stands, the change isn't part of a larger trend even within Apple itself. It's isolated to a single niche platform that has specific UI constraints where the change actually makes sense. Apple hasn't applied this change to its other platforms, where it could become widespread and influence other vendors. Of course, it's entirely valid to argue that this might change in the future. But again, why resort to personal attacks against someone who's simply bringing important context to the discussion?
- hulitu 3y ago
  > Apple’s HIG explain why this decision was made (my link), so I don’t think it is part of a larger trend After seeing everybody adopt the Android flat UI (win 10), i really think that stupidity is contagious.
  - tadfisher 3y ago
    Do you not remember when Apple started this trend with iOS 7? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_7 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_7
  - andirk 3y ago
    I think UI in general is changed so often for no reason other than because it's like art to the UI staff. And then others follow thinking that there is a good reason for those changes made by Apple or whomever. And some FOMO in there too.
- troupo 3y ago
  > Apple’s HIG explain why this decision was made Honestly, I wouldn't trust any modern Apple HIGs. After the UX butchery of BigSur they retroactively updated the HIGs to justify their decisions.
n2d4 3y ago
It's not a "minuscule number" because visionOS is controlled by looking at things and pinching your fingers. If people subconsciously stare at the edges of a square button, can you imagine how often they'll misclick? (mispinch?)
- layer8 3y ago
  Controls are highlighted in visionOS when you focus on them, making it clear when the pinching will or won't work.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  Other eyetracking software solves this and all related problems by simply showing you a pip of some sort where it senses you "looking". It's stupidly intuitive, low intrusiveness (and can go away when it senses you don't need to "look" at anything like when you are looking at a movie screen with no controls on it) and works just fine. Only Apple decides the solution to their broken UI is to break more of the UI.

by Mtinie 3y ago

al_borland 3y ago

From the OP’s article: >Apple is the first major operating system vendor who had abandoned a four-decades-long tradition. Their new visionOS — for the first time in the history of Apple — will have round checkboxes. So the death of the square checkbox they are predicting is only in the context of VisionOS. Apple’s HIG explain why this decision was made (my link), so I don’t think it is part of a larger trend and we shouldn’t expect it to impact anyone not using VisionOS, or other such headsets with eye tracking. It was done for technical reasons relating how the person will interact with the device, not style reasons.

Dalewyn 3y ago
[flagged]
- ludwik 3y ago
  I don't understand why some people feel the need to attack the only person in this thread who provided context about the change being discussed. You may agree with Apple's decision, or you may not. You might believe that it will have far-reaching negative consequences for the entire industry. Regardless, al_borland sharing the reasoning behind the decision (and linking to the source) is valuable and is the opposite of 'living under a rock'.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    I'm not disputing the logical reasoning behind circular checkboxes, I'm saying that if Apple does something then everyone else will follow suit regardless of any reasons. Apple is the fashion leader and trend setter of the IT industry, everyone else will follow them. It's appropriate to ring the death bell for square checkboxes, given that track record.
    - ludwik 3y ago
      Of course, you can have your view and express it in this thread. I just don't get why that needs to come with being rude and confrontational towards the person who simply provided important context.
      - thaumasiotes 3y ago
        He did more than that. He also assured everyone that this was an isolated phenomenon: >>> Apple’s HIG explain why this decision was made (my link), so I don’t think it is part of a larger trend and we shouldn’t expect it to impact anyone not using VisionOS, or other such headsets with eye tracking. Dalewyn's response makes perfect sense in this context.
        Dalewyn 3y ago
        Exactly. Apple's influence with regards to design and aesthetics is unparalleled, to downplay it is either straight ignorance or naivety. Everything from naming schemes (iPhone -> Core i3/5/7/9, Macbook -> ASUS Zenbook, et al.), to desktop interfaces (MacOS -> Windows 11 Explorer, GNOME), to phone interfaces (iOS -> Android), to connectivity (rather the lack thereof), to form factor (Macbook Air -> Intel ultrabooks and EVO), to entire markets (smartphones, tablets, portable music players) and more have all been defined or redefined and led by Apple. To suggest anything Apple does concerning design would be an isolated incident is ridiculous. If Apple says "jump", the IT industry asks "how high?".
        ludwik 3y ago
        This is a factual statement. As it stands, the change isn't part of a larger trend even within Apple itself. It's isolated to a single niche platform that has specific UI constraints where the change actually makes sense. Apple hasn't applied this change to its other platforms, where it could become widespread and influence other vendors. Of course, it's entirely valid to argue that this might change in the future. But again, why resort to personal attacks against someone who's simply bringing important context to the discussion?
hulitu 3y ago
> Apple’s HIG explain why this decision was made (my link), so I don’t think it is part of a larger trend After seeing everybody adopt the Android flat UI (win 10), i really think that stupidity is contagious.
- tadfisher 3y ago
  Do you not remember when Apple started this trend with iOS 7? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_7 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_7
- andirk 3y ago
  I think UI in general is changed so often for no reason other than because it's like art to the UI staff. And then others follow thinking that there is a good reason for those changes made by Apple or whomever. And some FOMO in there too.
troupo 3y ago
> Apple’s HIG explain why this decision was made Honestly, I wouldn't trust any modern Apple HIGs. After the UX butchery of BigSur they retroactively updated the HIGs to justify their decisions.

n2d4 3y ago

It's not a "minuscule number" because visionOS is controlled by looking at things and pinching your fingers. If people subconsciously stare at the edges of a square button, can you imagine how often they'll misclick? (mispinch?)

layer8 3y ago
Controls are highlighted in visionOS when you focus on them, making it clear when the pinching will or won't work.
mrguyorama 3y ago
Other eyetracking software solves this and all related problems by simply showing you a pip of some sort where it senses you "looking". It's stupidly intuitive, low intrusiveness (and can go away when it senses you don't need to "look" at anything like when you are looking at a movie screen with no controls on it) and works just fine. Only Apple decides the solution to their broken UI is to break more of the UI.