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> There's a (superficial) good case for turning markets loose on the problem of financing the rollout of an entirely new kind of energy provision across a large

> There's a (superficial) good case for turning markets loose on the problem of financing the rollout of an entirely new kind of energy provision across a large and heterogeneous nation. > So the government moved in to tinker with the markets > But we won't get there with markets. All markets will do is create incentives to cheat. Typical example of someone blaming markets for outcomes caused by the government intervention in those markets, and the government's poor judicial system. > If governments are willing to spend billions incentivizing rooftop solar, they can simply spend billions installing rooftop solar The same thoughtful government responsible for creating a substantial portion of our global warming through car-dependent infrastructure can surely be trusted with the reins to mitigate it.

pydry 3y ago
>caused by the government intervention in those markets, and the government's poor judicial system. How exactly did the government intervene to make those fraudsters commit fraud?
- sokoloff 3y ago
  When the government opens up the feed trough and fails to police it (as often happens), it ought not be surprised when pigs show up this time, just like the last 99 times…
  - pydry 3y ago
    Failing to police is not intervention it is a lack thereof. It's like blaming your alcoholism on your friends' intervention because they failed to stage an intervention.
    - h0l0cube 3y ago
      The government is charged with employing foresight when designing policy, particularly around financial incentives where the wolves are ready to take full advantage of any available loophole. The incentives need to be perfectly aligned with the desired outcomes, even for adversarial actors
    - trimethylpurine 3y ago
      The wolf leaving meat out for the wolves isn't a failure to police. The word you might be looking for is corruption. The fact that they assume we're idiots has nothing to do with alcoholism and everything to do with a lack of consequences. It's not THEIR failure to police the system. It's OUR failure to police politicians. There's no reason to assume they are any stupider than the rest of us.
kmeisthax 3y ago
Government broke my kneecaps, so obviously it shouldn't be allowed to give out crutches, or worse, stop breaking kneecaps /s
monero-xmr 3y ago
It’s incredible how the markets where the government intervenes the most - housing, medicine, education - are also those with the most dysfunction, scandals, cost growth, lack of accountability, and on and on. Yet many think, “We just need a few more laws and tax dollars, and this time it will be fixed for sure!”
- tryptophan 3y ago
  ISPs are a good example as well. Hyper regulated in the USA with millions of permits and little laws about everything... Meanwhile in Romania people just put cables up wherever they wanted and had 100s of bootleg ISPs and now they have the fastest/cheapest internet in the world. Guess we need more ivy league "educated" professional experts to solve this problem for us, as is the american way.
  - monero-xmr 3y ago
    The American system works like this: When a new industry develops, usually with totally new technology, we let entrepreneurs run wild. They don’t need permits, making new companies is easy, they file patents, and it’s a land rush. Once the industry matures and ossifies, and the winners go public and the pension funds and sovereign wealth and retail and everyone gets their retirement in, the American system begins to protect the incumbents. The government passes laws that are ostensibly neutral but are written hand-in-hand with lobbyists to ensure the incumbents remain. The incumbents get subsidies, they donate to politicians of both parties, they become embedded into the fabric of corporate America. America is crony capitalist once the players are established. However for small firms and new technologies, it’s wildcats and free markets. VCs not only provide capital but act as the nexus between the crony capitalists and the anointed new firms for acquisition, muscle in legal disputes, credibility, sustaining enterprise deals, etc. I would heavily reform the system to be less crony capitalist in numerous ways. Despite this, the American system is beating all other large countries by a lot.
    - achates 3y ago
      It's honestly impressive how productive the American economy is even with all of the shackles we put on it.

pydry 3y ago

>caused by the government intervention in those markets, and the government's poor judicial system. How exactly did the government intervene to make those fraudsters commit fraud?

sokoloff 3y ago
When the government opens up the feed trough and fails to police it (as often happens), it ought not be surprised when pigs show up this time, just like the last 99 times…
- pydry 3y ago
  Failing to police is not intervention it is a lack thereof. It's like blaming your alcoholism on your friends' intervention because they failed to stage an intervention.
  - h0l0cube 3y ago
    The government is charged with employing foresight when designing policy, particularly around financial incentives where the wolves are ready to take full advantage of any available loophole. The incentives need to be perfectly aligned with the desired outcomes, even for adversarial actors
  - trimethylpurine 3y ago
    The wolf leaving meat out for the wolves isn't a failure to police. The word you might be looking for is corruption. The fact that they assume we're idiots has nothing to do with alcoholism and everything to do with a lack of consequences. It's not THEIR failure to police the system. It's OUR failure to police politicians. There's no reason to assume they are any stupider than the rest of us.

kmeisthax 3y ago

Government broke my kneecaps, so obviously it shouldn't be allowed to give out crutches, or worse, stop breaking kneecaps /s

monero-xmr 3y ago

It’s incredible how the markets where the government intervenes the most - housing, medicine, education - are also those with the most dysfunction, scandals, cost growth, lack of accountability, and on and on. Yet many think, “We just need a few more laws and tax dollars, and this time it will be fixed for sure!”

tryptophan 3y ago
ISPs are a good example as well. Hyper regulated in the USA with millions of permits and little laws about everything... Meanwhile in Romania people just put cables up wherever they wanted and had 100s of bootleg ISPs and now they have the fastest/cheapest internet in the world. Guess we need more ivy league "educated" professional experts to solve this problem for us, as is the american way.
- monero-xmr 3y ago
  The American system works like this: When a new industry develops, usually with totally new technology, we let entrepreneurs run wild. They don’t need permits, making new companies is easy, they file patents, and it’s a land rush. Once the industry matures and ossifies, and the winners go public and the pension funds and sovereign wealth and retail and everyone gets their retirement in, the American system begins to protect the incumbents. The government passes laws that are ostensibly neutral but are written hand-in-hand with lobbyists to ensure the incumbents remain. The incumbents get subsidies, they donate to politicians of both parties, they become embedded into the fabric of corporate America. America is crony capitalist once the players are established. However for small firms and new technologies, it’s wildcats and free markets. VCs not only provide capital but act as the nexus between the crony capitalists and the anointed new firms for acquisition, muscle in legal disputes, credibility, sustaining enterprise deals, etc. I would heavily reform the system to be less crony capitalist in numerous ways. Despite this, the American system is beating all other large countries by a lot.
  - achates 3y ago
    It's honestly impressive how productive the American economy is even with all of the shackles we put on it.