6 ms·
Remote: Windows 3.11 Administrator (m/f/d)
- smodo 3y agoIt sounds like a dream job, but I’m sure that’s the nostalgia talking. And of course you have to wonder: could I rewrite this in Rust over a weekend?
- NamTaf 3y agoShort answer: no
- hyperman1 3y agoThere is a decent chance the answer is in fact yes, but you'll spend the next 5 years on getting certification for what you wrote.
- mushufasa 3y agoIDK. A lot of these systems are stuck not just because of complex business logic. That would be tedious to rewrite, definitely take longer than a weekend, but AI systems are actually a great use-case for helping in refactors. I think a bigger issue can be custom drivers / embedded technologies that require specific protocols / assumptions about servers. And those embedded areas may sit in hundreds of trains + train stations -- not impossible to update, but definitely more challenging to verify upgrades 100x times instead of one time. And the consequences of something bad can be train collisions = death. So it's easy to see how an organization leadership committee may decide "if it ain't broke don't fix it" because of risk with no real upside aside from a marginally lower salary cost of one maintainer -- if that.
- hervem 3y agoNot even sure AI could help about it, those software might run over system where the documentation never got out from physical paper support, maybe even hand notes. Talking Win 3.1, it means using Quick C / MFC 1.0 and co. that I image no today AI would learn as deprecated.
- jasomill 3y agoVisual C++ 1.52c (with MFC 2.50) is the last version to support 16-bit Windows and includes full electronic documentation (in Windows HLP and WRI format, admittedly, but it's there).
- netsharc 3y agoThe page says the work will be based in Erlangen. A quick search says Siemens has a big presence in Erlangen...
- steve1977 3y agoIt also mentions Sibas, which is the “Siemens Bahn Automatisierungs System” (Siemens Train Automation System). So this is probably spot on.
- NamTaf 3y agoI suspect this is a third-party supplier who is trying to keep old Siemens driver interface systems limping along. Bold, as when we tried that it was nearly impossible to do so - the OEM had too much of a stranglehold over the design.
- antiatheist 3y agoNote: In order to improve the readability of the text, the masculine form is used to refer to persons, functions, etc. However, it stands for all genders without exception.
- dharmab 3y agoThis makes a lot more sense in German than it does in English- it was likely translated directly.
- rafram 3y agoGerman is a very gendered language. Assuming that you’re male, would you be inclined to apply for a job if the description referred only to the “female employee who will hold this position” and what “her” responsibilities will be? That’s essentially analogous to the situation that women have when applying for jobs in German-speaking countries.
- blueflow 3y agoThis is a recent thing insisting that words don't include women because they have a male genus. And only in this specific direction. Nobody complains that men are not persons because "person" is always a "she" in German. The burden of proof still lies on the people arguing that word X does not include women.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- littlecranky67 3y agoGerman work anti-discrimination laws are very pro-employee. I know a case where a company had an advert for a "junior developer" and a guy in his late 50s who got rejected after sending his application sued for sole purpose of age discrimination. The company settled in the end for almost a years salary after the judge hinted that a settlement would be wise (labour cases are often settled in Germany). Just because the usage of the word "junior".
- 3y ago
- steve1977 3y agoThis puts the problems of Deutsche Bahn in another perspective ;) If only it was NT 3.51 instead of Windows 3.11, I might be tempted…
- tauchunfall 3y agoI read in a thread from 20 years ago that some systems in the trains use Windows NT. I guess they still use it. I think they can't update the internal system responsible for the engine and brakes that easily, as well as the cockpit control systems. But the system that displays the time and the next stations. With some investment you can communicate via serial or parallel port with the internal system. I guess using the WIFI for this instead would be a problem with security and reliablity, so they have to use the internal system.
- NamTaf 3y agoInteresting that Siemens seem to still be willing to support a Win 3.11-based system for at least one operator. That said, this looks like it's a third-party doing that work but Siemens must be tacitly allowing the third party to try to do so, as they'd have a complete stranglehold on the design, software and hardware underneath it. I worked for a rail operator and the driver interface systems of our locos (from other suppliers) were running on WinXP. We wanted some changes and feature upgrades, but the supplier said it was obsolete and they would not do any code changes to the WinXP software. Instead, they were telling us to move to a QNX-based version of it (which came with all of the fun joys of ensuring feature and interface equivalence for both the system and the human-computer interfaces). This was even for old locos, where moving to the QNX-based system wasn't just about running the same front-end software on a different OS, but in some cases was a fundamental hardware design upgrade (i.e. moving from a dumb terminal with a rack of hardware in a cupboard to fully integrated computers in the dash), which then meant making it interface with other hardware systems that may not be designed to talk to it. In some cases, those additional systems had to be upgraded. It was well in to 8 figures of work to do. I am surprised that Siemens have, in some degree, allowed ongoing support for this. Whichever operator uses it must be fairly big in order to bend them to still actively manage it.
- petee 3y agoI'd argue that if everything generally worked fine, and it is an estimated 8-figure upgrade, that I would only be surprised if they bothered an upgrade at all.
- tauchunfall 3y ago>I am surprised that Siemens have, in some degree, allowed ongoing support for this. Whichever operator uses it must be fairly big in order to bend them to still actively manage it. The ICE 1 and ICE 2 trains use this for their internal system. Deutsche Bahn will keep them running until at least 2029 (ICE 1) and 2030 (ICE 2). A co-worker showed me a video of a display of the passenger information system that boots in MS-DOS and then restarts after it fails to load network drivers. BIOS from 1996 (166 MHz, 8 MB RAM). I guess they also need some people to maintain network drivers (and serial/parallel port drivers and the applications using it). SIBAS is also used in Japanese and Swiss trains.
- HackerThemAll 3y agoWhat's the salary?
- hathym 3y ago65,535 $
- baq 3y agonot great, not terrible for 1992 dollars
- andybak 3y agoSo. 64k is enough for anyone!
- hathym 3y agoyes, and it's best not to seek a raise.
- nicetryguy 3y agoYes but checks are signed for -32,768
- nunez 3y agoi would love to create CI/CD for whatever app is targeting win3.11. my 6yo self would be happy.
- hervem 3y agoNot even sure it is possible: Visual C++ for Win95 can't target Win3.1 (as I remember) meaning just building will be something.. Talking about CI/CD software working on this target kinda sum-up to 0. I am already surprised that a company still support this target knowing that most dev tools for this platform are more found over enthusiast website rather than Microsoft itself. And having hardware for making these tools running too!
- jasomill 3y agoThe 16-bit Visual C++ 1.52c compiler (CL.EXE) and linker (LINK.EXE) are MS-DOS (DPMI[1], IIRC) executables, and should run under a variety of DOS emulators. As an example, starting DOSBox-X with an empty scratch directory mounted as drive C, the Visual C++ 1.52c CD-ROM mounted as drive D, and no additional configuration, C:\>copy con hello.c #include <stdlib.h> void main(int argc, char **argv) { puts("Hello, MS-DOS."); } ^Z 1 File(s) copied. C:\>set tmp=c:\ C:\>set path=d:\msvc15\bin;%path% C:\>set include=d:\msvc15\include C:\>set lib=d:\msvc15\lib C:\>cl hello.c Microsoft (R) C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 8.00c Copyright (c) Microsoft Corp 1984-1993. All rights reserved. hello.c Microsoft (R) Segmented Executable Linker Version 5.60.339 Dec 5 1994 Copyright (C) Microsoft Corp 1984-1993. All rights reserved. Object Modules [.obj]: hello.obj Run File [hello.exe]: "hello.exe" /noi List File [nul.map]: NUL Libraries [.lib]: Definitions File [nul.def]: ; C:\>hello Hello, MS-DOS. C:\> Alternatively, the full Visual C++ 1.52c GUI environment should run on any 32-bit x86 version of Windows 10. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS_Protected_Mode_Interface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS_Protected_Mode_Interface
- dholm 3y agoI think OpenWatcom supports windows 3.x and it's quite a nice compiler if you are targeting older PC systems and don't require support for the latest versions of C or C++. You can easily use it to cross-compile from a modern OS and I used it a few years ago for a Hackathon where we implemented a simple demo that we built on Linux and ran in DOSBox with a CI-like pipeline (no Jenkins involved since it was just for fun).
- s0k0l 3y agoFor the name of love to those who spends their life waiting train arrival and operates locos through old-fashioned OS! There is no sense to accept risks of business continuity and prolong such outdated software with heap of security vulnerabilities together with significant hard-'n'software limitations. I propose: - SWAP ALL unsupported system software (Win 3.11) and start using modern opensource OS distributives. - migrate all GUI's to to web interfaces with flexible markup. I believe you will require different resolutions and displays also! - to expect regular system software update process in critical infrastructure. Now i know the reason why trains always coming not in time. We all wait until Win3.11 is loaded))
- kunley 3y agoInteresting that only with an advent of IoT it became obvious, that it is hard or impossible to upgrade some systems and that writing software for small devices can be very cool. (Having said that, I detest the usage of win3.11 here anyway ;)