5 ms·

Nuclear Plant Could Bring 1,600 Jobs to Kemmerer, Wyoming

38 points by LinuxBender 3y ago

Ajay-p 3y ago
It does not say in the article but from looking at the project website, this plant is 5-10 years at minimum from completion and permitting, that's if there are no regulatory or environmental challenges. Given the onerous and lengthy process I am not optimistic this will ever come to fruition. https://www.terrapower.com/natrium-project-update/ https://www.terrapower.com/natrium-project-update/
- juujian 3y ago
  5-10 years nuclear time means 10-20 I real time, it's a simple conversion really. Of course that is if it's not cancelled...
- credit_guy 3y ago
  No way this gets commercialized in 10 years. The NRC page [1] states that the Natrium project is in the preapplication phase. In the case of NuScale, the approval took 6 years from the application time, and that was a pressurized water reactor, that the NRC has plenty of experience with. Compared to that, the NRC has virtually zero experience with sodium cooled reactors; one can claim that the precursor of the NRC, the AEC had such experience, but probably no employee from those times is still alive, let alone currently employed. So the pre-application, application and approval process will be one of learning as much for the NRC as for Terrapower. If they get it done in the next 10 years, that's a stunning achievement. And only after that Terrapower will start working on the actual commercial reactors. This is a very long haul enterprise. But if they get it done, this can change the nuclear industry. Russia already has 2 such reactors working, and this month they started burning fuel derived from nuclear waste in one of them. These reactors achieve a lot of things: no need for pressure vessel, can burn U-238, so basically the uranium reserves become unlimited, produce much less waste, and can even burn waste. The first of these is by far the most important, because it means they can be made for much cheaper. [1] https://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-reactors/advanced/who-were-working-with/licensing-activities/pre-application-activities/natrium.html https://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-reactors/advanced/who-were-...
Johnny555 3y ago
Aren’t these temporary construction jobs? Which seems like the worst kind of jobs for a small town… infrastructure , retail, housing, etc is built for the huge influx of workers and after 5 years or whatever they go away, and only a relatively few workers remain for operation of the plant.
- 7e 3y ago
  The town’s existing coal plant is winding down in 2030, so there need not be any new permanent construction. One set of workers will replace another. There will be an influx of construction jobs, but there are a few small towns about an hour away which could help accommodate. Banks will know better than to lend for outrageous expansion.
- throwawayqqq11 3y ago
  They could extend the project and build a final depot for radioactive waste. Jobs for the next hundred thousand years. Gosh, i hate the trend for NE. When will the public realize, that its the side effects of our waste products (like CO2) that cause us all the trouble? Or that we are depending on yet another finite resource? Why not a project for fully renewable energy sources and storage with less delicate waste? Why letting big monopolistic coropratios externalize the cost of waste management to the public so NE appears affordable/profitable? Its just short sighted, imo, to put it nicely.
  - mlsu 3y ago
    Nuclear waste is dangerous. Coal ash, tailings, hydrocarbon extraction byproducts; those are also dangerous. Look at cancer rates near refinery areas in Louisiana or Houston -- you might imagine a nuclear bomb went off in those areas based on the cancer rates. Nuclear waste has the unique property that it is very easily detected. This is actually a good thing! It means we can isolate it, test for isolation, and stay away. The other upside is that there is less of it. Contrast that with something like the Kingston fly ash spill. There is not enough U-235 on earth to spill that much: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Fossil_Plant_coal_fly_ash_slurry_spill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Fossil_Plant_coal_fly.... That is a single event (with a death toll similar to Chernobyl!) The picture for semiconductor manufacturing or battery manufacturing is not perfect either. Short sighted? Removing a zero carbon clean energy source from the table when decarbonization is urgently needed -- that is short sighted.
dooopdoop 3y ago
[dead]
elijah_moham 3y ago
[dead]
roenxi 3y ago
It is a nice idea, but just looking at some basic stats [0] I'd be a little surprised if it ever gets up and running. Let alone finished. Nuclear technology isn't really something a western country can handle under the current regulatory environment. At this point, the only real hope is in Asia. The west seems to be committed to an ongoing (if you check the energy availability stats) program of deindustrialisation. [0] https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/plans-for-new-reactors-worldwide.aspx https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-an...
- throwaway5959 3y ago
  Why build nuclear when solar and wind is cheaper and at worst the turbine catches on fire? There’s no waste to worry about for thousands of years. Did I mention it’s cheaper?
  - roenxi 3y ago
    If we held nuclear to a similar safety standard to the airline, coal or solar industry it'd probably be cheaper. > There’s no waste to worry about for thousands of years. The waste from solar and wind never decays. It is permanent. That is worse.
    - ViewTrick1002 3y ago
      Let's phase out the Price-Anderson act as well so we do not socialize the accident insurance for nuclear plants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price%E2%80%93Anderson_Nuclear_Industries_Indemnity_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price%E2%80%93Anderson_Nuclear... What waste from solar and wind is not recyclable?
      - defrost 3y ago
        Of the top of my head, cadmium and lead, low level radioactive waste from associated lithium extraction from spodumene concentrates, pools of acids as a result of rare earth processing, etc. Solar, wind, batteries etc are growing but as yet are only a small percentage of the energy produced by coal - as coal is phased out and replaced the waste from renewables will grow. To be absolutely clear, I am not anti renewable energy .. but there are some serious waste issues associated with all forms of rare earth and other concentrate pocessing. Pretending there isn't would be just head in the sand greenwashing of recycling issues. The International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) did a 100 page report 8 years ago on the need to harvest solar panels to recover materials to form a closed cycle. To date we're still dominated by end-of-life e-waste going to landfill to be recoved "later". https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Publication/2016/IRENA_IEAPVPS_End-of-Life_Solar_PV_Panels_2016.pdf?rev=49a75178e38c46288a18753346fb0b09 https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Publication... That's one form of waste. The associated and often overlooked other form of waste is the byproducts from first creation, the processing of mined concentrates into useful materials comes with a slew of nasty by products that have yet to be comprehensibly dealt with. These are material forms of renewable debt.
exabrial 3y ago
I want to vote for whatever presidential candidate says they’ll help every state get a new nuclear project started and approved.

38 points by LinuxBender 3y ago

It does not say in the article but from looking at the project website, this plant is 5-10 years at minimum from completion and permitting, that's if there are no regulatory or environmental challenges. Given the onerous and lengthy process I am not optimistic this will ever come to fruition. https://www.terrapower.com/natrium-project-update/ https://www.terrapower.com/natrium-project-update/

juujian 3y ago
5-10 years nuclear time means 10-20 I real time, it's a simple conversion really. Of course that is if it's not cancelled...
credit_guy 3y ago
No way this gets commercialized in 10 years. The NRC page [1] states that the Natrium project is in the preapplication phase. In the case of NuScale, the approval took 6 years from the application time, and that was a pressurized water reactor, that the NRC has plenty of experience with. Compared to that, the NRC has virtually zero experience with sodium cooled reactors; one can claim that the precursor of the NRC, the AEC had such experience, but probably no employee from those times is still alive, let alone currently employed. So the pre-application, application and approval process will be one of learning as much for the NRC as for Terrapower. If they get it done in the next 10 years, that's a stunning achievement. And only after that Terrapower will start working on the actual commercial reactors. This is a very long haul enterprise. But if they get it done, this can change the nuclear industry. Russia already has 2 such reactors working, and this month they started burning fuel derived from nuclear waste in one of them. These reactors achieve a lot of things: no need for pressure vessel, can burn U-238, so basically the uranium reserves become unlimited, produce much less waste, and can even burn waste. The first of these is by far the most important, because it means they can be made for much cheaper. [1] https://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-reactors/advanced/who-were-working-with/licensing-activities/pre-application-activities/natrium.html https://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-reactors/advanced/who-were-...

Johnny555 3y ago

Aren’t these temporary construction jobs? Which seems like the worst kind of jobs for a small town… infrastructure , retail, housing, etc is built for the huge influx of workers and after 5 years or whatever they go away, and only a relatively few workers remain for operation of the plant.

7e 3y ago
The town’s existing coal plant is winding down in 2030, so there need not be any new permanent construction. One set of workers will replace another. There will be an influx of construction jobs, but there are a few small towns about an hour away which could help accommodate. Banks will know better than to lend for outrageous expansion.
throwawayqqq11 3y ago
They could extend the project and build a final depot for radioactive waste. Jobs for the next hundred thousand years. Gosh, i hate the trend for NE. When will the public realize, that its the side effects of our waste products (like CO2) that cause us all the trouble? Or that we are depending on yet another finite resource? Why not a project for fully renewable energy sources and storage with less delicate waste? Why letting big monopolistic coropratios externalize the cost of waste management to the public so NE appears affordable/profitable? Its just short sighted, imo, to put it nicely.
- mlsu 3y ago
  Nuclear waste is dangerous. Coal ash, tailings, hydrocarbon extraction byproducts; those are also dangerous. Look at cancer rates near refinery areas in Louisiana or Houston -- you might imagine a nuclear bomb went off in those areas based on the cancer rates. Nuclear waste has the unique property that it is very easily detected. This is actually a good thing! It means we can isolate it, test for isolation, and stay away. The other upside is that there is less of it. Contrast that with something like the Kingston fly ash spill. There is not enough U-235 on earth to spill that much: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Fossil_Plant_coal_fly_ash_slurry_spill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Fossil_Plant_coal_fly.... That is a single event (with a death toll similar to Chernobyl!) The picture for semiconductor manufacturing or battery manufacturing is not perfect either. Short sighted? Removing a zero carbon clean energy source from the table when decarbonization is urgently needed -- that is short sighted.

dooopdoop 3y ago

[dead]

elijah_moham 3y ago

[dead]

roenxi 3y ago

It is a nice idea, but just looking at some basic stats [0] I'd be a little surprised if it ever gets up and running. Let alone finished. Nuclear technology isn't really something a western country can handle under the current regulatory environment. At this point, the only real hope is in Asia. The west seems to be committed to an ongoing (if you check the energy availability stats) program of deindustrialisation. [0] https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/plans-for-new-reactors-worldwide.aspx https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-an...

throwaway5959 3y ago
Why build nuclear when solar and wind is cheaper and at worst the turbine catches on fire? There’s no waste to worry about for thousands of years. Did I mention it’s cheaper?
- roenxi 3y ago
  If we held nuclear to a similar safety standard to the airline, coal or solar industry it'd probably be cheaper. > There’s no waste to worry about for thousands of years. The waste from solar and wind never decays. It is permanent. That is worse.
  - ViewTrick1002 3y ago
    Let's phase out the Price-Anderson act as well so we do not socialize the accident insurance for nuclear plants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price%E2%80%93Anderson_Nuclear_Industries_Indemnity_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price%E2%80%93Anderson_Nuclear... What waste from solar and wind is not recyclable?
    - defrost 3y ago
      Of the top of my head, cadmium and lead, low level radioactive waste from associated lithium extraction from spodumene concentrates, pools of acids as a result of rare earth processing, etc. Solar, wind, batteries etc are growing but as yet are only a small percentage of the energy produced by coal - as coal is phased out and replaced the waste from renewables will grow. To be absolutely clear, I am not anti renewable energy .. but there are some serious waste issues associated with all forms of rare earth and other concentrate pocessing. Pretending there isn't would be just head in the sand greenwashing of recycling issues. The International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) did a 100 page report 8 years ago on the need to harvest solar panels to recover materials to form a closed cycle. To date we're still dominated by end-of-life e-waste going to landfill to be recoved "later". https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Publication/2016/IRENA_IEAPVPS_End-of-Life_Solar_PV_Panels_2016.pdf?rev=49a75178e38c46288a18753346fb0b09 https://www.irena.org/-/media/Files/IRENA/Agency/Publication... That's one form of waste. The associated and often overlooked other form of waste is the byproducts from first creation, the processing of mined concentrates into useful materials comes with a slew of nasty by products that have yet to be comprehensibly dealt with. These are material forms of renewable debt.

exabrial 3y ago

I want to vote for whatever presidential candidate says they’ll help every state get a new nuclear project started and approved.