5 ms·

Huh. "Simulation theory" is almost indistinguishable from classical deism, if you squint.

consumer451 3y ago
It is absolutely that! see my previous rant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33580896 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33580896 I think that maybe I get really worked up about this because I am still pissed off that Santa Claus wasn't real, or at least that I once believed he was. I am not being facetious.
- moron4hire 3y ago
  It's always weirded me out how many ostensibly Christian households teach their children about Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, etc, and let the kids think they are real. Do they not realize they are sewing the first seeds of doubt the children will have in their household religion?
  - graemep 3y ago
    I think the "ostensibly" has a lot to do with it. I am Christian and never told my kids Santa Claus was real. On the other hand there is no harm in stories. I also do not want my kids to believe something just because I believe it. They should think for themselves and to do otherwise it is dishonest. I do agree it is sometimes odd. I found myself trying to explain to a bewildered Sikh guy on Twitter why British society gets upset when people tell kids that Santa Claus is not real but is fine with people telling kids that Jesus is not real.
  - consumer451 3y ago
    Hmm, I wonder if it serves a societal purpose. As far as I can remember, catching my parents in "the big Santa lie" was the first time that I realized that adults are full of crap. This is a valuable lesson, right? But I felt so betrayed! It was the beginning of my journey into fact-based reasoning, naturalism, etc. I distinctively remember thinking: I will never believe in magic again! I started asking too many questions at catholic Sunday school, and the Sunday school teacher and I decided it was best that we part ways. I am over 40 now, but this is such a strong and important memory. I am still a little pissed off about it. This is hilarious, and maybe a bit profound.
  - 127361 3y ago
    And how deceiving children is normalized in society, together with even worse forms of mistreatment. Because children are low status and can't fight back, adults and society in general can get away with doing all sorts of unjustified nasty things to them. That no adult would ever tolerate. It really is a dominance hierarchy there, something we expect from animals. People are supposed to be better than that.
  - Slow_Hand 3y ago
    That’s certainly what happened to me. I can’t recall ever believing in Santa whole-heartedly and the knowledge of it’s falseness was a foot in the door to question everything else. Strangely my brother was far, far older when my mother and I had to convince him that Santa was not actually real. She was afraid that kids at school would make fun of him if we didn’t pop his bubble first. I’m not sure what to make of that difference in belief between my brother and I.
- graemep 3y ago
  I think your comparison with Greek gods is unfair. I would say Descartes is a better parallel. In fact it is just a recasting of his ideas. It is not science, but it is perfectly respectable philosophy.
  - consumer451 3y ago
    Can you please explain why the Greek god comparison is unfair? I used it because they used their latest tech, as does alien simulation theory.
    - graemep 3y ago
      There was no technology involved, only observation. Did the Greeks believe their myths that literally? It is very hard to know how ancient people's interpreted stories like that unless you have an in-depth knowledge of the culture. I do not, but its a question worth asking - particularly about a culture that produced so many naturalistic explanations for things. Even if you are right and they did believe it literally it is still the opposite of the simulation theory. It is accepting the first explanation that comes along, without applying doubt, whereas simulation theory is based on extensive doubt of even your immediate senses - exactly the same as Descarte's line of thought.
- viraptor 3y ago
  It's it really that though? Deism involves some god and worship normally. I'm happy to say "that's a cool theory and if we experimentally confirm some quantisation of our universe, that's not the most stupid explanation to think of", while still rejecting any idea of deism or thinking I need to "do anything" about that fact. I mean, the creator can be strictly just that, like I'm not a god of my breakfast every day.
- bluesounddirect 3y ago
  Santa Claus was a mushroom https://www.ffungi.org/blog/the-influence-of-hallucinogenic-mushrooms-on-christmas https://www.ffungi.org/blog/the-influence-of-hallucinogenic-... As a husband of a Sami woman , I wonder when my kids will make the connection that the elves look oddly like the people from the old country .

It is absolutely that! see my previous rant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33580896 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33580896 I think that maybe I get really worked up about this because I am still pissed off that Santa Claus wasn't real, or at least that I once believed he was. I am not being facetious.

moron4hire 3y ago
It's always weirded me out how many ostensibly Christian households teach their children about Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, etc, and let the kids think they are real. Do they not realize they are sewing the first seeds of doubt the children will have in their household religion?
- graemep 3y ago
  I think the "ostensibly" has a lot to do with it. I am Christian and never told my kids Santa Claus was real. On the other hand there is no harm in stories. I also do not want my kids to believe something just because I believe it. They should think for themselves and to do otherwise it is dishonest. I do agree it is sometimes odd. I found myself trying to explain to a bewildered Sikh guy on Twitter why British society gets upset when people tell kids that Santa Claus is not real but is fine with people telling kids that Jesus is not real.
- consumer451 3y ago
  Hmm, I wonder if it serves a societal purpose. As far as I can remember, catching my parents in "the big Santa lie" was the first time that I realized that adults are full of crap. This is a valuable lesson, right? But I felt so betrayed! It was the beginning of my journey into fact-based reasoning, naturalism, etc. I distinctively remember thinking: I will never believe in magic again! I started asking too many questions at catholic Sunday school, and the Sunday school teacher and I decided it was best that we part ways. I am over 40 now, but this is such a strong and important memory. I am still a little pissed off about it. This is hilarious, and maybe a bit profound.
- 127361 3y ago
  And how deceiving children is normalized in society, together with even worse forms of mistreatment. Because children are low status and can't fight back, adults and society in general can get away with doing all sorts of unjustified nasty things to them. That no adult would ever tolerate. It really is a dominance hierarchy there, something we expect from animals. People are supposed to be better than that.
- Slow_Hand 3y ago
  That’s certainly what happened to me. I can’t recall ever believing in Santa whole-heartedly and the knowledge of it’s falseness was a foot in the door to question everything else. Strangely my brother was far, far older when my mother and I had to convince him that Santa was not actually real. She was afraid that kids at school would make fun of him if we didn’t pop his bubble first. I’m not sure what to make of that difference in belief between my brother and I.
graemep 3y ago
I think your comparison with Greek gods is unfair. I would say Descartes is a better parallel. In fact it is just a recasting of his ideas. It is not science, but it is perfectly respectable philosophy.
- consumer451 3y ago
  Can you please explain why the Greek god comparison is unfair? I used it because they used their latest tech, as does alien simulation theory.
  - graemep 3y ago
    There was no technology involved, only observation. Did the Greeks believe their myths that literally? It is very hard to know how ancient people's interpreted stories like that unless you have an in-depth knowledge of the culture. I do not, but its a question worth asking - particularly about a culture that produced so many naturalistic explanations for things. Even if you are right and they did believe it literally it is still the opposite of the simulation theory. It is accepting the first explanation that comes along, without applying doubt, whereas simulation theory is based on extensive doubt of even your immediate senses - exactly the same as Descarte's line of thought.
viraptor 3y ago
It's it really that though? Deism involves some god and worship normally. I'm happy to say "that's a cool theory and if we experimentally confirm some quantisation of our universe, that's not the most stupid explanation to think of", while still rejecting any idea of deism or thinking I need to "do anything" about that fact. I mean, the creator can be strictly just that, like I'm not a god of my breakfast every day.
bluesounddirect 3y ago
Santa Claus was a mushroom https://www.ffungi.org/blog/the-influence-of-hallucinogenic-mushrooms-on-christmas https://www.ffungi.org/blog/the-influence-of-hallucinogenic-... As a husband of a Sami woman , I wonder when my kids will make the connection that the elves look oddly like the people from the old country .