6 ms·

The writing is not anything special. What is special is the nonlinear nature of the gameplay and how the story stays coherent around it. It's not perfect but th

The writing is not anything special. What is special is the nonlinear nature of the gameplay and how the story stays coherent around it. It's not perfect but there is not really anything else like it.

bluefirebrand 3y ago
> there is not really anything else like it. This is another absolutely baffling statement people keep making about Baldurs Gate 3. CRPGs have done nonlinear gameplay narratives for decades at least. Hell, even Larian's previous games do exactly this same thing. Baldur's Gate 3 has a ton of the same story beats and gameplay structure as Divinity Original Sin 2, even down to starting the game in a shipwreck! The idea that there's not really anything else like it is just plain wrong. Look I'm glad that so many people got their first exposure to CRPGs with Baldur's Gate 3 and think they've experienced something amazing. I think I just finally understand how my Dad felt when my sister was trying to tell him about this amazing band called "The Beatles"
- corethree 3y ago
  There's nothing else like it in terms of quality. Most CRPGs don't have full voice overs and animations for EVERY conversation option. Many don't allow you to just kill every single key character and still maintain narrative flow. The writing is excellent. The plot is generic. A generic plot isn't necessarily a bad thing either. Some of the best movies follow a generic arc, Star wars the MCU are all good because of the genericness. A lot of people are just snobbish. Not you, but I feel that's where a lot of the judgement comes from.
  - bluefirebrand 3y ago
    > Most CRPGs don't have full voice overs and animations for EVERY conversation option Dragon age had this a decade ago > Many don't allow you to just kill every single key character and still maintain narrative flow I am skeptical that Baldur's Gate 3's scripting is actually this resilient. Regardless, games like Fallout had this sort of behavior two decades ago. > The writing is excellent. The plot is generic The writing will wind up seeming better depending on how you play. Spoiler ahead: For example, Shadowheart has a big decision to kill or not kill an enemy of Shar at the end of act 2. My friend loved this moment because he let her choose and she chose to abandon Shar because she felt it was wrong, despite all of her firm claims to be absolutely devout. He felt it made Shadowheart nuanced and like she knew the right thing to do despite her indoctrination. I rolled persuasion to convince her not to kill the person, and it made her seem absolutely player-centric and super easy to convince to turn her back on Shar. It was terrible writing. But I didn't want her to kill the person. And I was honestly surprised that was her default action if you let her choose. Vastly different experiences, one seems like good writing, one seems bad.
    - corethree 3y ago
      >Dragon age had this a decade ago Fine maybe not the only one. But very very few are like it. >I am skeptical that Baldur's Gate 3's scripting is actually this resilient. Regardless, games like Fallout had this sort of behavior two decades ago. No fallout doesn't come close. Fallout is structured so you can't kill critical main characters until it's time. They structure the script in a way where it's impossible. This is way better than putting up invulnerability guards the way most games do. Bg 3 solves the issue by using replacement characters. You kill off a critical person to early another person will take his place and fulfill his role. I suspect the developers have some sort of plot hole static checker similar to type checkers that allow them to fill every possible hole. > Vastly different experiences, one seems like good writing, one seems bad. You are conflating bad writing with personal preference. Whether a character makes one choice or the other the writers narrate both options the quality of the narration is not what you're commenting on. You're commenting on your preferred choice. Not agreeing with a choice or even not agreeing with writing is not bad writing. For example, I wouldn't call the mien Kampf poorly written even though I disagree with it. I mean read what you wrote. Where in any of your paragraphs was writing actually commented on? You are commenting more on plot and choices.
      - bluefirebrand 3y ago
        > You are conflating bad writing with personal preference Seems like a silly thing to say. Of course what is good or bad writing is a matter of personal taste. I'm not conflating anything. > No fallout doesn't come close. Fallout is structured so you can't kill critical main characters until it's time. They structure the script in a way where it's impossible. > Bg 3 solves the issue by using replacement characters. You kill off a critical person to early another person will take his place and fulfill his role. That's effectively the same thing. One just feels more video-gamey, but the game's linearity What happens if you kill the replacement? Does it generate a new person to continue? Seems silly to me. > This is way better than putting up invulnerability guards the way most games do. That's just, like, your opinion man. > I mean read what you wrote. Where in any of your paragraphs was writing actually commented on? You are commenting more on plot and choices. Plot and choices are part of writing, no? This seems seriously nitpicky. Writing isn't just "the act of putting words into a sentence", it's all of the decisions that led to that sentence existing. If I complained that the dialogue often sounded like it came from a high school student (Karlach doing fist pumps and shouting "Hell Yeah" whenever she likes something, for example) would you similarly complain that I'm not talking about the "writing" but the "prose"? By the way, I didn't disagree when Shadowheart seemed so easily swayed. I just thought she was a poorly written character to have her strong convictions overruled so easily. Same with Lae'zel when she turned on the Gith queen basically because I told her to. Two characters that never once expressed any doubts about their divine missions, both turned away from them based on a single choice I made. That seems like weakly written characters to me.
- FoodWThrow 3y ago
  > CRPGs have done nonlinear gameplay narratives for decades at least. CRPGs have done the illusion of nonlinear gameplay narratives for decades. Baldur's Gate 3 simply has a vastly more polished version of it, rather than paying lip service like recent, mainline RPGs - anything from Bethesda for example.
wharvle 3y ago
I found the nonlinearity thing overhyped. It was fine, but on par with, like, Fallout 2. But not quite on that level, even. Not some revelation. Actually, kinda worse than that, because good and evil are more-explicit in BG3. It presents an illusion of much greater depth than it actually has. (I did enjoy it, and finished it, but have found much of the praise for it more confusing than something I can relate to)

bluefirebrand 3y ago

> there is not really anything else like it. This is another absolutely baffling statement people keep making about Baldurs Gate 3. CRPGs have done nonlinear gameplay narratives for decades at least. Hell, even Larian's previous games do exactly this same thing. Baldur's Gate 3 has a ton of the same story beats and gameplay structure as Divinity Original Sin 2, even down to starting the game in a shipwreck! The idea that there's not really anything else like it is just plain wrong. Look I'm glad that so many people got their first exposure to CRPGs with Baldur's Gate 3 and think they've experienced something amazing. I think I just finally understand how my Dad felt when my sister was trying to tell him about this amazing band called "The Beatles"

corethree 3y ago
There's nothing else like it in terms of quality. Most CRPGs don't have full voice overs and animations for EVERY conversation option. Many don't allow you to just kill every single key character and still maintain narrative flow. The writing is excellent. The plot is generic. A generic plot isn't necessarily a bad thing either. Some of the best movies follow a generic arc, Star wars the MCU are all good because of the genericness. A lot of people are just snobbish. Not you, but I feel that's where a lot of the judgement comes from.
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  > Most CRPGs don't have full voice overs and animations for EVERY conversation option Dragon age had this a decade ago > Many don't allow you to just kill every single key character and still maintain narrative flow I am skeptical that Baldur's Gate 3's scripting is actually this resilient. Regardless, games like Fallout had this sort of behavior two decades ago. > The writing is excellent. The plot is generic The writing will wind up seeming better depending on how you play. Spoiler ahead: For example, Shadowheart has a big decision to kill or not kill an enemy of Shar at the end of act 2. My friend loved this moment because he let her choose and she chose to abandon Shar because she felt it was wrong, despite all of her firm claims to be absolutely devout. He felt it made Shadowheart nuanced and like she knew the right thing to do despite her indoctrination. I rolled persuasion to convince her not to kill the person, and it made her seem absolutely player-centric and super easy to convince to turn her back on Shar. It was terrible writing. But I didn't want her to kill the person. And I was honestly surprised that was her default action if you let her choose. Vastly different experiences, one seems like good writing, one seems bad.
  - corethree 3y ago
    >Dragon age had this a decade ago Fine maybe not the only one. But very very few are like it. >I am skeptical that Baldur's Gate 3's scripting is actually this resilient. Regardless, games like Fallout had this sort of behavior two decades ago. No fallout doesn't come close. Fallout is structured so you can't kill critical main characters until it's time. They structure the script in a way where it's impossible. This is way better than putting up invulnerability guards the way most games do. Bg 3 solves the issue by using replacement characters. You kill off a critical person to early another person will take his place and fulfill his role. I suspect the developers have some sort of plot hole static checker similar to type checkers that allow them to fill every possible hole. > Vastly different experiences, one seems like good writing, one seems bad. You are conflating bad writing with personal preference. Whether a character makes one choice or the other the writers narrate both options the quality of the narration is not what you're commenting on. You're commenting on your preferred choice. Not agreeing with a choice or even not agreeing with writing is not bad writing. For example, I wouldn't call the mien Kampf poorly written even though I disagree with it. I mean read what you wrote. Where in any of your paragraphs was writing actually commented on? You are commenting more on plot and choices.
    - bluefirebrand 3y ago
      > You are conflating bad writing with personal preference Seems like a silly thing to say. Of course what is good or bad writing is a matter of personal taste. I'm not conflating anything. > No fallout doesn't come close. Fallout is structured so you can't kill critical main characters until it's time. They structure the script in a way where it's impossible. > Bg 3 solves the issue by using replacement characters. You kill off a critical person to early another person will take his place and fulfill his role. That's effectively the same thing. One just feels more video-gamey, but the game's linearity What happens if you kill the replacement? Does it generate a new person to continue? Seems silly to me. > This is way better than putting up invulnerability guards the way most games do. That's just, like, your opinion man. > I mean read what you wrote. Where in any of your paragraphs was writing actually commented on? You are commenting more on plot and choices. Plot and choices are part of writing, no? This seems seriously nitpicky. Writing isn't just "the act of putting words into a sentence", it's all of the decisions that led to that sentence existing. If I complained that the dialogue often sounded like it came from a high school student (Karlach doing fist pumps and shouting "Hell Yeah" whenever she likes something, for example) would you similarly complain that I'm not talking about the "writing" but the "prose"? By the way, I didn't disagree when Shadowheart seemed so easily swayed. I just thought she was a poorly written character to have her strong convictions overruled so easily. Same with Lae'zel when she turned on the Gith queen basically because I told her to. Two characters that never once expressed any doubts about their divine missions, both turned away from them based on a single choice I made. That seems like weakly written characters to me.
FoodWThrow 3y ago
> CRPGs have done nonlinear gameplay narratives for decades at least. CRPGs have done the illusion of nonlinear gameplay narratives for decades. Baldur's Gate 3 simply has a vastly more polished version of it, rather than paying lip service like recent, mainline RPGs - anything from Bethesda for example.

wharvle 3y ago

I found the nonlinearity thing overhyped. It was fine, but on par with, like, Fallout 2. But not quite on that level, even. Not some revelation. Actually, kinda worse than that, because good and evil are more-explicit in BG3. It presents an illusion of much greater depth than it actually has. (I did enjoy it, and finished it, but have found much of the praise for it more confusing than something I can relate to)