5 ms·

How is an eSIM any different from a normal one? I can get up to three eSIM (if memory serves well, did not check) from my carrier for free, plus up to two norma

by hef19898 3y ago

How is an eSIM any different from a normal one? I can get up to three eSIM (if memory serves well, did not check) from my carrier for free, plus up to two normal SIMs for free. And the carrier controls all of those anyway. And additional SIMs are below 10 bucks. A more general remarque so, I get it that sometimes companies monetize a tad too much. But then nobody is working for free, no service comes without cost for the provider and we all have to make money to pay our bills. Hence I do not get the "they are doing it onpy for money" attitude, especially on a site like HN with a considerable number of people making litteral FAANG money, money that comes exactly from these practices.

mitthrowaway2 3y ago
> considerable number of people making litteral FAANG money As always, be careful not to confuse the sample with the distribution. The commenter you are replying to is not necessarily one of those people. Also, their statement might be matter-of-fact, not a condemnation.
pi-e-sigma 3y ago
Transferring eSIMs between the carriers requires their cooperation. They have to 'approve' the transfer and can drag their feet, create artificial obstacles along the way or simply refuse the transfer. Meanwhile moving traditional SIMs between phones just works
- eertami 3y ago
  Don't many phone providers sell locked/branded phones that can only be used with their physical sims? This locking down has always existed, long before smartphones, and it's the reason I only buy phones direct from manufacturers.
TeMPOraL 3y ago
> Hence I do not get the "they are doing it onpy for money" attitude, especially on a site like HN I didn't read it as "they're doing it only for money". That indeed is perfectly understandable. I read GP as saying, they're being customer-abusive asshats. We all need to make money to pay our bills and such, however there's a subtle but important difference between selling some good/service/labor in exchange for money, and abusing the customer to extract money from them. eSIM, per GP, is designed very much for the latter case.
izacus 3y ago
> Hence I do not get the "they are doing it onpy for money" attitude, especially on a site like HN with a considerable number of people making litteral FAANG money, money that comes exactly from these practices. As someone who designed quite a few public systems like this, I can recognize one that's built with users in mind and one that's built with profiteering in mind. There's no reason for eSIM to not be easily transferrable between devices like pSIMs are. There's no reason that the QR codes with provisioning tokens can't be reusable and revokable like pSIM ones. There's no reason that eSIM provisioning servers work on whitelist principle where they deny all phones the carrier doesn't profit from. And yet now we have all that. And before (at least here in Europe, I'm aware that US citizens are very used and defensive about abusive business practices by their telecoms) we didn't.
- judge2020 3y ago
  > There's no reason that eSIM provisioning servers work on whitelist principle where they deny all phones the carrier doesn't profit from. AT&T already has a whitelist based on IMEI that works for pSIM too. https://redd.it/trfw5r https://redd.it/trfw5r
  - izacus 3y ago
    What did you try to say with that statement?
- lloeki 3y ago
  > There's no reason for eSIM to not be easily transferrable between devices like pSIMs are. Indeed there is none: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212780 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212780 > Use eSIM Quick Transfer on iPhone > Some carriers support SIM transfers from your previous iPhone to your new iPhone without needing to contact them. You can also convert your current physical SIM card to an eSIM. The whole page is full of what eSIM can do, but it seems carriers are not too happy about that as many block things that should be outright possible. There are tons of weird things that are impossible just because carriers, e.g I have a phone that can do eSIM or pSIM, I have a tablet that can do mobile, eSIM or pSIM. I have a nice data plan for the phone, and it is eligible to share it with a watch and/or a tablet. Such a hypothetical watch that I don't own would be eSIM, and be able to share the data plan but somehow the exact same case for the tablet can only be done via pSIM, neither can I convert its pSIM to an eSIM, which is allowed for the phone. It makes no sense.

mitthrowaway2 3y ago

> considerable number of people making litteral FAANG money As always, be careful not to confuse the sample with the distribution. The commenter you are replying to is not necessarily one of those people. Also, their statement might be matter-of-fact, not a condemnation.

pi-e-sigma 3y ago

Transferring eSIMs between the carriers requires their cooperation. They have to 'approve' the transfer and can drag their feet, create artificial obstacles along the way or simply refuse the transfer. Meanwhile moving traditional SIMs between phones just works

eertami 3y ago
Don't many phone providers sell locked/branded phones that can only be used with their physical sims? This locking down has always existed, long before smartphones, and it's the reason I only buy phones direct from manufacturers.

TeMPOraL 3y ago

> Hence I do not get the "they are doing it onpy for money" attitude, especially on a site like HN I didn't read it as "they're doing it only for money". That indeed is perfectly understandable. I read GP as saying, they're being customer-abusive asshats. We all need to make money to pay our bills and such, however there's a subtle but important difference between selling some good/service/labor in exchange for money, and abusing the customer to extract money from them. eSIM, per GP, is designed very much for the latter case.

izacus 3y ago

> Hence I do not get the "they are doing it onpy for money" attitude, especially on a site like HN with a considerable number of people making litteral FAANG money, money that comes exactly from these practices. As someone who designed quite a few public systems like this, I can recognize one that's built with users in mind and one that's built with profiteering in mind. There's no reason for eSIM to not be easily transferrable between devices like pSIMs are. There's no reason that the QR codes with provisioning tokens can't be reusable and revokable like pSIM ones. There's no reason that eSIM provisioning servers work on whitelist principle where they deny all phones the carrier doesn't profit from. And yet now we have all that. And before (at least here in Europe, I'm aware that US citizens are very used and defensive about abusive business practices by their telecoms) we didn't.

judge2020 3y ago
> There's no reason that eSIM provisioning servers work on whitelist principle where they deny all phones the carrier doesn't profit from. AT&T already has a whitelist based on IMEI that works for pSIM too. https://redd.it/trfw5r https://redd.it/trfw5r
- izacus 3y ago
  What did you try to say with that statement?
lloeki 3y ago
> There's no reason for eSIM to not be easily transferrable between devices like pSIMs are. Indeed there is none: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212780 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212780 > Use eSIM Quick Transfer on iPhone > Some carriers support SIM transfers from your previous iPhone to your new iPhone without needing to contact them. You can also convert your current physical SIM card to an eSIM. The whole page is full of what eSIM can do, but it seems carriers are not too happy about that as many block things that should be outright possible. There are tons of weird things that are impossible just because carriers, e.g I have a phone that can do eSIM or pSIM, I have a tablet that can do mobile, eSIM or pSIM. I have a nice data plan for the phone, and it is eligible to share it with a watch and/or a tablet. Such a hypothetical watch that I don't own would be eSIM, and be able to share the data plan but somehow the exact same case for the tablet can only be done via pSIM, neither can I convert its pSIM to an eSIM, which is allowed for the phone. It makes no sense.