4 ms·

> DACA is an exception for people who were already in violation of the law, no? So even if that subsystem is inconsistent, unreliable, or totally nonfunctional,

> DACA is an exception for people who were already in violation of the law, no? So even if that subsystem is inconsistent, unreliable, or totally nonfunctional, it wouldn't be a reason to say the system as a whole is broken. Let me make sure I understand the point I think you're trying to make. Because people with DACA status were in violation of the law at some point in their lives, it's acceptable to thrust upon them a broken system? So, they deserve it? I just want to be sure because it sounds like you're saying it's acceptable for this system to mistreat or otherwise neglect a subset of people because reasons. Setting aside the fact that DACA status is Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, namely, people brought to this country as children at a time in their lives when they could not have known what was happening let alone had the agency to say, "hey wait, have you tried the normal way to immigrate into this country, mom and / or dad?" The point I was trying to make with DACA is that the system is broken, not because of long wait times for paperwork, but because at any point the entire thing can be taken away. DACA status has been threatened multiple times. Imagine living a life you didn't ask for, not native to the land in which you live, and not native to the one you were forcibly taken from, and living under the shadow of the threat of being forcibly taken back to a strange country. That's one part of the system that is fundamentally broken, and because these people are "in violation of the law", they deserve it? The machine doesn't work unless the parts do. Or to quote Solomon Burke, if "one of us are chained, none of us are free." It's easy to dismiss a single piece that doesn't impact your life directly. "Great! The illegals have a hard time with immigration. Maybe they should not have broken the law, then!" But to many it is their entire lives, and through no fault of their own. It's this contentment with injustice elsewhere that's utterly infuriating and really shines a light on the privilege of some on this forum. Not even going to touch the "economic migrant" bit. Sounds a little too close to a dog whistle to me. Not even sure why I felt the need to engage this much.

kelnos 3y ago
> "Great! The illegals have a hard time with immigration. Maybe they should not have broken the law, then!" But to many it is their entire lives, and through no fault of their own. This is the thing that really gets me. There's all this hand-wringing about how people in the country illegally should just accept that they did it "the wrong way", and oops, well, I guess that means they're not worthy of being treated as a human with wants and needs and dreams anymore. Because what, they crossed an imaginary line on the ground someone drew, in a way that didn't match up with the rules a bunch of out-of-touch people decided on? Not just out-of-touch, but people who actively use immigration reform (or the lack thereof) as a political weapon. It's so easy for someone (such as myself) who was born in the US, whose family has been in the US for generations, to just not get what a big deal all this is. I will likely never have to worry about feeling unsafe in my own country, feeling like I have absolutely no opportunity to house, clothe, and feed myself. And if I did, I'd still have options! I know it can be hard for some of us to try on the shoes of someone who believes that the only way for them (and their family) to have a future is to pack up whatever they can carry and risk their lives to "sneak" into another country where they will have better chances. But I really wish people would show more sympathy and empathy toward people in that situation.
- mlrtime 3y ago
  >actively use immigration reform (or the lack thereof) as a political weapon. You criticize this but then do the exact same thing. You try to manipulate the reader by stating that if you don't agree with your view point they lack sympathy. This is exactly what politicians do. Read the reply above yours that states facts and law, there is no politics, manipulation or appeals for sympathy.
lmm 3y ago
> Let me make sure I understand the point I think you're trying to make. Because people with DACA status were in violation of the law at some point in their lives, it's acceptable to thrust upon them a broken system? So, they deserve it? I just want to be sure because it sounds like you're saying it's acceptable for this system to mistreat or otherwise neglect a subset of people because reasons. Not "at some point in their lives". DACA is for people who are remaining in the country in continual violation of the law. Short of human rights violations like torture, it's acceptable for any system that permits them to remain in the country despite the illegality of their presence to be "broken", because the very existence of any such system is supererogatory. > The point I was trying to make with DACA is that the system is broken, not because of long wait times for paperwork, but because at any point the entire thing can be taken away. DACA status has been threatened multiple times. Imagine living a life you didn't ask for, not native to the land in which you live, and not native to the one you were forcibly taken from, and living under the shadow of the threat of being forcibly taken back to a strange country. That's one part of the system that is fundamentally broken, and because these people are "in violation of the law", they deserve it? What I would call "broken" is a system where you can do an end run around all our immigration laws by breaking them a day before your (claimed) 16th birthday. Yes, bad parents can place their children in an arbitrarily awful position, but there are any number of other ways they can do that; it's not the state's responsibility to pick up the pieces (and making it so creates perverse incentives) outside exceptional circumstances like orphans/foundlings (who I believe do have a path to citizenship). > It's easy to dismiss a single piece that doesn't impact your life directly. "Great! The illegals have a hard time with immigration. Maybe they should not have broken the law, then!" > But to many it is their entire lives, and through no fault of their own. It's this contentment with injustice elsewhere that's utterly infuriating and really shines a light on the privilege of some on this forum. I'd say that applies double to the wealthy PMC who promote illegal immigration because it doesn't hurt them.

kelnos 3y ago

> "Great! The illegals have a hard time with immigration. Maybe they should not have broken the law, then!" But to many it is their entire lives, and through no fault of their own. This is the thing that really gets me. There's all this hand-wringing about how people in the country illegally should just accept that they did it "the wrong way", and oops, well, I guess that means they're not worthy of being treated as a human with wants and needs and dreams anymore. Because what, they crossed an imaginary line on the ground someone drew, in a way that didn't match up with the rules a bunch of out-of-touch people decided on? Not just out-of-touch, but people who actively use immigration reform (or the lack thereof) as a political weapon. It's so easy for someone (such as myself) who was born in the US, whose family has been in the US for generations, to just not get what a big deal all this is. I will likely never have to worry about feeling unsafe in my own country, feeling like I have absolutely no opportunity to house, clothe, and feed myself. And if I did, I'd still have options! I know it can be hard for some of us to try on the shoes of someone who believes that the only way for them (and their family) to have a future is to pack up whatever they can carry and risk their lives to "sneak" into another country where they will have better chances. But I really wish people would show more sympathy and empathy toward people in that situation.

mlrtime 3y ago
>actively use immigration reform (or the lack thereof) as a political weapon. You criticize this but then do the exact same thing. You try to manipulate the reader by stating that if you don't agree with your view point they lack sympathy. This is exactly what politicians do. Read the reply above yours that states facts and law, there is no politics, manipulation or appeals for sympathy.

lmm 3y ago

> Let me make sure I understand the point I think you're trying to make. Because people with DACA status were in violation of the law at some point in their lives, it's acceptable to thrust upon them a broken system? So, they deserve it? I just want to be sure because it sounds like you're saying it's acceptable for this system to mistreat or otherwise neglect a subset of people because reasons. Not "at some point in their lives". DACA is for people who are remaining in the country in continual violation of the law. Short of human rights violations like torture, it's acceptable for any system that permits them to remain in the country despite the illegality of their presence to be "broken", because the very existence of any such system is supererogatory. > The point I was trying to make with DACA is that the system is broken, not because of long wait times for paperwork, but because at any point the entire thing can be taken away. DACA status has been threatened multiple times. Imagine living a life you didn't ask for, not native to the land in which you live, and not native to the one you were forcibly taken from, and living under the shadow of the threat of being forcibly taken back to a strange country. That's one part of the system that is fundamentally broken, and because these people are "in violation of the law", they deserve it? What I would call "broken" is a system where you can do an end run around all our immigration laws by breaking them a day before your (claimed) 16th birthday. Yes, bad parents can place their children in an arbitrarily awful position, but there are any number of other ways they can do that; it's not the state's responsibility to pick up the pieces (and making it so creates perverse incentives) outside exceptional circumstances like orphans/foundlings (who I believe do have a path to citizenship). > It's easy to dismiss a single piece that doesn't impact your life directly. "Great! The illegals have a hard time with immigration. Maybe they should not have broken the law, then!" > But to many it is their entire lives, and through no fault of their own. It's this contentment with injustice elsewhere that's utterly infuriating and really shines a light on the privilege of some on this forum. I'd say that applies double to the wealthy PMC who promote illegal immigration because it doesn't hurt them.