5 ms·

Is what correct? Is iPadOS a different platform than iOS? That's not an easy question to answer. It's a different OS, it has a different name, it runs on diffe

Is what correct? Is iPadOS a different platform than iOS? That's not an easy question to answer. It's a different OS, it has a different name, it runs on different devices, it has different features, it runs different apps. But iPads ran "iOS" for many years, and iPadOS was clearly just a rebranding of the iOS that ran on iPads. On the other hand, iOS (then iPhoneOS) was announced as a "compressed and streamlined" version of OSX. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that iPadOS is a different platform than iOS, but I do think that Apple is being very self serving by saying so in this context.

zamadatix 3y ago
I think the question was framed around verifying the part where it claims the European Commission is said to agree with Apple that the 2 operating systems are separate.
rezonant 3y ago
As sibling points out, it's about what the EU thinks. "iPadOS" runs iOS apps, and iOS apps can be full fledged "iPadOS" apps with a single binary. The distinction is a business distinction, not a technical one. There are strange tiny differences in what APIs are offered, but the same is true of two Windows computers, for example, for one that has a DirectX capable graphics card and one that does not.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  I had the same reaction at first. It looks like and probably is an obvious tactic to evade the DMA. But then, if we look at Debian and Ubuntu for instance, we'd agree they're different even if there will be compatibility. I think Apple should be allowed to set each of their stores and OSes as separate but compatible entities. And I also think scrutiny should be applied not on an OS base but on a more generic "platform" or "ecosystem" base. I suppose that's where the EU regulators are ropping in iPadOS even if it doesn't fit the bill strictly speaking.
  - Tijdreiziger 3y ago
    Regardless of whether iOS and iPadOS are the same OS, I think it is substantially the case that they operate in different markets (smartphone market vs. tablet market).
    - makeitdouble 3y ago
      I think looking at the competition is a good indicator. On one side we have the hybrid computer market -> computer market, like Chromebooks and chromeOS devices, and Windows 11 in the same space. On the other side android spans what we'd call phones up to 14" tablets, foldables brindging both ends. iOS is clearly competing with android, and the iPad is way closer to android than Windows or even ChromeOS. The iOS/iPad split would relate to Apple's internal divisions more than a existing split of the market itself IMHO.
      - Tijdreiziger 3y ago
        > iOS is clearly competing with android, and the iPad is way closer to android than Windows or even ChromeOS. Yes, I definitely agree with that. However, you could contrive an argument that ‘since the tablet market is way smaller, it’s less important to regulate it.’ Personally I’m in agreement that the regulation should apply to both markets, though.
  - everforward 3y ago
    > But then, if we look at Debian and Ubuntu for instance, we'd agree they're different even if there will be compatibility. They're separate organizations, which largely precludes it being an effort to avoid the DMA barring some cartel-like behavior. I think it's going to hinge heavily on their usage of the term "platform". Debian and Ubuntu are both undeniably the same operating system under a technical definition of OS. They both run Linux, which is the OS. They differentiate themselves in userspace, which is not part of the OS. I don't care for the usage of the term "platform" because it's unclear what makes a "platform". It feels like something that will be arbitrarily applied when convenient.
- filoleg 3y ago
  > "iPadOS" runs iOS apps, and iOS apps can be full fledged "iPadOS" apps with a single binary. The distinction is a business distinction, not a technical one. That’s a rather weak argument, because the exact same thing can be said about running iOS/iPadOS apps on macs with ARM chips (aka any macs made since 2020). Yes, you can literally go to the iOS/iPadOS section of the App Store on macOS, and for devs that enabled that checkbox during the build of their app, you can install those apps on your mac and run with a single click.
Eric_WVGG 3y ago
now that iPadOS has features that frequently trail a year behind iOS — lock screen widgets, off the top of my head — as well as features like Stage Manager and whatever it is I'm using right now to make my iPad an external Mac display, I think it's safe to say we're at least four years into a now non-trivial hard fork.
- kmeisthax 3y ago
  Stage Manager works on jailbroken iPhones. There is no fork.

zamadatix 3y ago

I think the question was framed around verifying the part where it claims the European Commission is said to agree with Apple that the 2 operating systems are separate.

rezonant 3y ago

As sibling points out, it's about what the EU thinks. "iPadOS" runs iOS apps, and iOS apps can be full fledged "iPadOS" apps with a single binary. The distinction is a business distinction, not a technical one. There are strange tiny differences in what APIs are offered, but the same is true of two Windows computers, for example, for one that has a DirectX capable graphics card and one that does not.

makeitdouble 3y ago
I had the same reaction at first. It looks like and probably is an obvious tactic to evade the DMA. But then, if we look at Debian and Ubuntu for instance, we'd agree they're different even if there will be compatibility. I think Apple should be allowed to set each of their stores and OSes as separate but compatible entities. And I also think scrutiny should be applied not on an OS base but on a more generic "platform" or "ecosystem" base. I suppose that's where the EU regulators are ropping in iPadOS even if it doesn't fit the bill strictly speaking.
- Tijdreiziger 3y ago
  Regardless of whether iOS and iPadOS are the same OS, I think it is substantially the case that they operate in different markets (smartphone market vs. tablet market).
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    I think looking at the competition is a good indicator. On one side we have the hybrid computer market -> computer market, like Chromebooks and chromeOS devices, and Windows 11 in the same space. On the other side android spans what we'd call phones up to 14" tablets, foldables brindging both ends. iOS is clearly competing with android, and the iPad is way closer to android than Windows or even ChromeOS. The iOS/iPad split would relate to Apple's internal divisions more than a existing split of the market itself IMHO.
    - Tijdreiziger 3y ago
      > iOS is clearly competing with android, and the iPad is way closer to android than Windows or even ChromeOS. Yes, I definitely agree with that. However, you could contrive an argument that ‘since the tablet market is way smaller, it’s less important to regulate it.’ Personally I’m in agreement that the regulation should apply to both markets, though.
- everforward 3y ago
  > But then, if we look at Debian and Ubuntu for instance, we'd agree they're different even if there will be compatibility. They're separate organizations, which largely precludes it being an effort to avoid the DMA barring some cartel-like behavior. I think it's going to hinge heavily on their usage of the term "platform". Debian and Ubuntu are both undeniably the same operating system under a technical definition of OS. They both run Linux, which is the OS. They differentiate themselves in userspace, which is not part of the OS. I don't care for the usage of the term "platform" because it's unclear what makes a "platform". It feels like something that will be arbitrarily applied when convenient.
filoleg 3y ago
> "iPadOS" runs iOS apps, and iOS apps can be full fledged "iPadOS" apps with a single binary. The distinction is a business distinction, not a technical one. That’s a rather weak argument, because the exact same thing can be said about running iOS/iPadOS apps on macs with ARM chips (aka any macs made since 2020). Yes, you can literally go to the iOS/iPadOS section of the App Store on macOS, and for devs that enabled that checkbox during the build of their app, you can install those apps on your mac and run with a single click.

Eric_WVGG 3y ago

now that iPadOS has features that frequently trail a year behind iOS — lock screen widgets, off the top of my head — as well as features like Stage Manager and whatever it is I'm using right now to make my iPad an external Mac display, I think it's safe to say we're at least four years into a now non-trivial hard fork.

kmeisthax 3y ago
Stage Manager works on jailbroken iPhones. There is no fork.