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How does history prove any such thing? That's neither how history or proof work. Most of the wars that have been resolved to everyone's benefit have done so by
by noqc 3y ago
How does history prove any such thing? That's neither how history or proof work. Most of the wars that have been resolved to everyone's benefit have done so by the unconditional surrender of the aggressors, followed by amicable reconstruction.
- shakow 3y ago> How does history prove any such thing? Because there are Jews living in Germany nowadays?
- sgift 3y ago... after Germany was bombed to the ground and occupied for years. Only after that came the diplomatic efforts.
- shakow 3y ago> after Germany was bombed to the ground and occupied for years Well, looks like that box is checked for Gaza; can we jump to diplomacy now?
- avmich 3y agoBox is not checked yet, otherwise IDF wouldn't have any resistance. We should try diplomacy all the time, but right now the offer of Israel is unconditional surrender or continuation of hostilities. Maybe - maybe - less atrocious to civilians than what it was during March 1945 in Germany. Diplomats will keep their work; of course everybody's abilities are limited.
- shakow 3y ago> Box is not checked yet, otherwise IDF wouldn't have any resistance. That's a misqualification; Germany offered resistance up to the last day, Berlin didn't fall without a fight.
- paulryanrogers 3y agoAre there Jews in Germany today because of diplomacy? Or because those who tried annihilating and enslaving most German Jews were removed from power by force?
- noqc 3y agoAfter Germany surrendered unconditionally and was amicably reconstructed.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Ozzie_osman 3y agoWho is the aggressor here?
- gafferongames 3y agoHamas on Oct 7th
- Ozzie_osman 3y agoMany people would disagree if you look at the history starting from the Nakba.
- gafferongames 3y ago[flagged]
- Ozzie_osman 3y agoNot sure how that easily Google-able question has anything to do with the discussion. Name one famous Israeli from more than 100 years ago. Name one famous American from more than 250 years ago. What am I proving by asking these questions?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- runarberg 3y agoIf Christopher Columbus can be Italian, then Jesus Christ can be considered a Palestinian.
- Zpalmtree 3y ago[flagged]
- peterashford 3y agoWhat is that question even for? What are you saying?
- locallost 3y agoIt provides examples that it happened and thus proves it's possible.
- noqc 3y agoI'm not convinced by the examples that you have listed (a conspicuously empty list at that), and examples are only evidence by analogy anyway. The reactivity of hydrogen is not proof of the reactivity of helium.
- locallost 3y agoThe list is empty if you haven't read what I originally posted and linked. Obviously you haven't. Politics is neither chemistry nor physics, it is what is referred to as the art of the impossible. Many nasty situations in the past seemed impossible to solve diplomatically, but it was made possible. No matter how bleak it might have looked. Again, refer to the link I posted that kicked off this discussion.
- noqc 3y agoI assure you that I read the tweet, and the list remains utterly null. In a broader sense, I don't fault you for looking at war and thinking, or rather hoping, that in a just world, this wouldn't be the solution to any problem. It is unsettled whether or not humanity can create such a just world, but we certainly haven't done it yet. Requiring the unconditional surrender of Hamas through force is very much a reasonable and acceptable way forward.
- locallost 3y ago"And that's the cunning of history; when you're at the bottom, something can happen that gives hope. After the 1973 war, who would have thought that before the end of the decade, Egypt would sign a peace treaty with Israel?" so at least the list is obviously > 0. That's a good starting point for you to reconsider where else you've made a mistake.