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Hundreds of thousands of civilians have been killed in Ukraine. Putin is explicitly aiming to destroy Ukrainian national identity, which is genocide. He has di

Hundreds of thousands of civilians have been killed in Ukraine. Putin is explicitly aiming to destroy Ukrainian national identity, which is genocide. He has disappeared countless people in the occupied territories… literally, countless, no one knows how many because rights orgs don’t operate there. He’s indicted by the ICC for stealing children from occupied territories to solve the Russian “demographic crisis,” and to remove the future generation of Ukrainians. There’s nothing frivolous about this, ask a Ukrainian. See Putin’s many speeches, including from February 24, to this effect, he doesn’t believe Ukrainians or Ukraine has a right to exist, and believed that Ukrainians can be dispensed with like subhumans.

CapricornNoble 3y ago
> Hundreds of thousands of civilians have been killed in Ukraine. Can you link some credible references for this? The OHCHR, as of October 2023, listed 10,000 killed and 18,000 wounded. https://reliefweb.int/report/ukraine/ukraine-civilian-casualties-8-october-2023-enruuk https://reliefweb.int/report/ukraine/ukraine-civilian-casual... For that estimate to be off by AT LEAST an order of magnitude as you are claiming requires quite a bit of evidence.
protomolecule 3y ago
[flagged]
- timcobb 3y ago
  Sadly I don’t have time right now for a complete response, but for example, in just the battle of Mariupol: Per Russia: 3,000+ civilians killed[43] Per Ukraine: 25,000+ civilians killed[44] 50,000+ deported[45]
  - protomolecule 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - timcobb 3y ago
      Who’s reporting the figures from Gaza that everyone is using?
      - protomolecule 3y ago
        "Mortality reporting is a crucial indicator of the severity of a conflict setting, but it can also be inflated or under-reported for political purposes. Amidst the ongoing conflict in Gaza, some political parties have indicated scepticism about the reporting of fatalities by the Gaza Ministry of Health (MoH). The Gaza MoH has historically reported accurate mortality data, with discrepancies between MoH reporting and independent United Nations analyses ranging from 1·5% to 3·8% in previous conflicts. A comparison between the Gaza MoH and Israeli Foreign Ministry mortality figures for the 2014 war yielded an 8·0% discrepancy. Public scepticism of the current reports by the Gaza MoH might undermine the efforts to reduce civilian harm and provide life-saving assistance." [0] [0] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02713-7/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]

CapricornNoble 3y ago

> Hundreds of thousands of civilians have been killed in Ukraine. Can you link some credible references for this? The OHCHR, as of October 2023, listed 10,000 killed and 18,000 wounded. https://reliefweb.int/report/ukraine/ukraine-civilian-casualties-8-october-2023-enruuk https://reliefweb.int/report/ukraine/ukraine-civilian-casual... For that estimate to be off by AT LEAST an order of magnitude as you are claiming requires quite a bit of evidence.

protomolecule 3y ago

[flagged]

timcobb 3y ago
Sadly I don’t have time right now for a complete response, but for example, in just the battle of Mariupol: Per Russia: 3,000+ civilians killed[43] Per Ukraine: 25,000+ civilians killed[44] 50,000+ deported[45]
- protomolecule 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - timcobb 3y ago
    Who’s reporting the figures from Gaza that everyone is using?
    - protomolecule 3y ago
      "Mortality reporting is a crucial indicator of the severity of a conflict setting, but it can also be inflated or under-reported for political purposes. Amidst the ongoing conflict in Gaza, some political parties have indicated scepticism about the reporting of fatalities by the Gaza Ministry of Health (MoH). The Gaza MoH has historically reported accurate mortality data, with discrepancies between MoH reporting and independent United Nations analyses ranging from 1·5% to 3·8% in previous conflicts. A comparison between the Gaza MoH and Israeli Foreign Ministry mortality figures for the 2014 war yielded an 8·0% discrepancy. Public scepticism of the current reports by the Gaza MoH might undermine the efforts to reduce civilian harm and provide life-saving assistance." [0] [0] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02713-7/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]