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> iPadOS on the iPad is a completely different platform in the eyes of Apple and the European Commission. Is this correct, or is Apple making the distinction h

> iPadOS on the iPad is a completely different platform in the eyes of Apple and the European Commission. Is this correct, or is Apple making the distinction here?

poniko 3y ago
Yes, Apple stated they have 5 different app stores.
- layer8 3y ago
  App stores and operating systems are different things under the DMA to which different rules apply. The commission view Apple’s App Store as a single app store, but iOS and iPadOS as different operating systems. The rules apply accordingly.
sharkjacobs 3y ago
Is what correct? Is iPadOS a different platform than iOS? That's not an easy question to answer. It's a different OS, it has a different name, it runs on different devices, it has different features, it runs different apps. But iPads ran "iOS" for many years, and iPadOS was clearly just a rebranding of the iOS that ran on iPads. On the other hand, iOS (then iPhoneOS) was announced as a "compressed and streamlined" version of OSX. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that iPadOS is a different platform than iOS, but I do think that Apple is being very self serving by saying so in this context.
- zamadatix 3y ago
  I think the question was framed around verifying the part where it claims the European Commission is said to agree with Apple that the 2 operating systems are separate.
- rezonant 3y ago
  As sibling points out, it's about what the EU thinks. "iPadOS" runs iOS apps, and iOS apps can be full fledged "iPadOS" apps with a single binary. The distinction is a business distinction, not a technical one. There are strange tiny differences in what APIs are offered, but the same is true of two Windows computers, for example, for one that has a DirectX capable graphics card and one that does not.
  - makeitdouble 3y ago
    I had the same reaction at first. It looks like and probably is an obvious tactic to evade the DMA. But then, if we look at Debian and Ubuntu for instance, we'd agree they're different even if there will be compatibility. I think Apple should be allowed to set each of their stores and OSes as separate but compatible entities. And I also think scrutiny should be applied not on an OS base but on a more generic "platform" or "ecosystem" base. I suppose that's where the EU regulators are ropping in iPadOS even if it doesn't fit the bill strictly speaking.
    - Tijdreiziger 3y ago
      Regardless of whether iOS and iPadOS are the same OS, I think it is substantially the case that they operate in different markets (smartphone market vs. tablet market).
      - makeitdouble 3y ago
        I think looking at the competition is a good indicator. On one side we have the hybrid computer market -> computer market, like Chromebooks and chromeOS devices, and Windows 11 in the same space. On the other side android spans what we'd call phones up to 14" tablets, foldables brindging both ends. iOS is clearly competing with android, and the iPad is way closer to android than Windows or even ChromeOS. The iOS/iPad split would relate to Apple's internal divisions more than a existing split of the market itself IMHO.
        Tijdreiziger 3y ago
        > iOS is clearly competing with android, and the iPad is way closer to android than Windows or even ChromeOS. Yes, I definitely agree with that. However, you could contrive an argument that ‘since the tablet market is way smaller, it’s less important to regulate it.’ Personally I’m in agreement that the regulation should apply to both markets, though.
    - everforward 3y ago
- Eric_WVGG 3y ago
  now that iPadOS has features that frequently trail a year behind iOS — lock screen widgets, off the top of my head — as well as features like Stage Manager and whatever it is I'm using right now to make my iPad an external Mac display, I think it's safe to say we're at least four years into a now non-trivial hard fork.
  - kmeisthax 3y ago
    Stage Manager works on jailbroken iPhones. There is no fork.
kristjansson 3y ago
Given the literal billions of dollars at stake, presumably this has been viscously litigated already, and this is where the EC and Apple have landed
- ChrisLTD 3y ago
  If it had been litigated, there would be stories about the court cases, no?
- rezonant 3y ago
  If you presume that the EU has actually signed off on this and all the other DMA changes Apple announced, then the DMA at least as it affects Apple is useless. If iPadOS was deemed separate by the EU prior to the DMA rulings, that's interesting, and am wondering if anyone can cite a source. EDIT: Posted elsewhere, they have an iPadOS specific inquiry: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_4328 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_...
- jsnell 3y ago
  No. EU doesn't pre-approve any of these plans. They'll only be assessed after the compliance deadline (in early March) and will take into account public feedback on the proposals. The interesting question will be how plans that are deemed to be insufficient are dealt with. If the companies can just change their plans after getting the EU's feedback, it becomes a rational choice to submit illegal plans and then "fix" it. That way there's no risk of accidentally giving too many concessions. To avoid that, attempts as blatant as Apple's shouldn't be just negotiated down to a compromise but result in immediate fines.
layer8 3y ago
“Operating system” is one of the categories of things the DMA applies to. The commission so far has only designated iOS (among Apple OSs), not iPadOS. The commission could arguably have viewed them as being variations of the same single OS, but it didn’t.

> iPadOS on the iPad is a completely different platform in the eyes of Apple and the European Commission. Is this correct, or is Apple making the distinction here?

poniko 3y ago

Yes, Apple stated they have 5 different app stores.

layer8 3y ago
App stores and operating systems are different things under the DMA to which different rules apply. The commission view Apple’s App Store as a single app store, but iOS and iPadOS as different operating systems. The rules apply accordingly.

sharkjacobs 3y ago

Is what correct? Is iPadOS a different platform than iOS? That's not an easy question to answer. It's a different OS, it has a different name, it runs on different devices, it has different features, it runs different apps. But iPads ran "iOS" for many years, and iPadOS was clearly just a rebranding of the iOS that ran on iPads. On the other hand, iOS (then iPhoneOS) was announced as a "compressed and streamlined" version of OSX. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that iPadOS is a different platform than iOS, but I do think that Apple is being very self serving by saying so in this context.

zamadatix 3y ago
I think the question was framed around verifying the part where it claims the European Commission is said to agree with Apple that the 2 operating systems are separate.
rezonant 3y ago
As sibling points out, it's about what the EU thinks. "iPadOS" runs iOS apps, and iOS apps can be full fledged "iPadOS" apps with a single binary. The distinction is a business distinction, not a technical one. There are strange tiny differences in what APIs are offered, but the same is true of two Windows computers, for example, for one that has a DirectX capable graphics card and one that does not.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  I had the same reaction at first. It looks like and probably is an obvious tactic to evade the DMA. But then, if we look at Debian and Ubuntu for instance, we'd agree they're different even if there will be compatibility. I think Apple should be allowed to set each of their stores and OSes as separate but compatible entities. And I also think scrutiny should be applied not on an OS base but on a more generic "platform" or "ecosystem" base. I suppose that's where the EU regulators are ropping in iPadOS even if it doesn't fit the bill strictly speaking.
  - Tijdreiziger 3y ago
    Regardless of whether iOS and iPadOS are the same OS, I think it is substantially the case that they operate in different markets (smartphone market vs. tablet market).
    - makeitdouble 3y ago
      I think looking at the competition is a good indicator. On one side we have the hybrid computer market -> computer market, like Chromebooks and chromeOS devices, and Windows 11 in the same space. On the other side android spans what we'd call phones up to 14" tablets, foldables brindging both ends. iOS is clearly competing with android, and the iPad is way closer to android than Windows or even ChromeOS. The iOS/iPad split would relate to Apple's internal divisions more than a existing split of the market itself IMHO.
      - Tijdreiziger 3y ago
        > iOS is clearly competing with android, and the iPad is way closer to android than Windows or even ChromeOS. Yes, I definitely agree with that. However, you could contrive an argument that ‘since the tablet market is way smaller, it’s less important to regulate it.’ Personally I’m in agreement that the regulation should apply to both markets, though.
  - everforward 3y ago
Eric_WVGG 3y ago
now that iPadOS has features that frequently trail a year behind iOS — lock screen widgets, off the top of my head — as well as features like Stage Manager and whatever it is I'm using right now to make my iPad an external Mac display, I think it's safe to say we're at least four years into a now non-trivial hard fork.
- kmeisthax 3y ago
  Stage Manager works on jailbroken iPhones. There is no fork.

kristjansson 3y ago

Given the literal billions of dollars at stake, presumably this has been viscously litigated already, and this is where the EC and Apple have landed

ChrisLTD 3y ago
If it had been litigated, there would be stories about the court cases, no?
rezonant 3y ago
If you presume that the EU has actually signed off on this and all the other DMA changes Apple announced, then the DMA at least as it affects Apple is useless. If iPadOS was deemed separate by the EU prior to the DMA rulings, that's interesting, and am wondering if anyone can cite a source. EDIT: Posted elsewhere, they have an iPadOS specific inquiry: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_4328 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_...
jsnell 3y ago
No. EU doesn't pre-approve any of these plans. They'll only be assessed after the compliance deadline (in early March) and will take into account public feedback on the proposals. The interesting question will be how plans that are deemed to be insufficient are dealt with. If the companies can just change their plans after getting the EU's feedback, it becomes a rational choice to submit illegal plans and then "fix" it. That way there's no risk of accidentally giving too many concessions. To avoid that, attempts as blatant as Apple's shouldn't be just negotiated down to a compromise but result in immediate fines.

layer8 3y ago

“Operating system” is one of the categories of things the DMA applies to. The commission so far has only designated iOS (among Apple OSs), not iPadOS. The commission could arguably have viewed them as being variations of the same single OS, but it didn’t.