3 ms·

Focus on 95% of 5% or focus on 20% of 95%? You're choosing #1.

by graphe 3y ago

throwawayqqq11 3y ago
China is hit by climate change too. Every side has to fix theirs first or how could you (rich west, that profited mostly from unsustainable economic growth) ever make demands to anyone else. Take it from the game theory perspective. Everyone or noone. And which side is the easiest to change? To me, the answer is simple and just pointing at whataboutthem is just short sighted, like building a wall to fix internal crime rates.
- graphe 3y ago
  A dike had a large and small hole with that logic will be underwater.
  - throwawayqqq11 3y ago
    A large hole that one cannot reach. Game theroy requires at least two participants. Sounds logical now?
- genman 3y ago
  Everybody took advantage. The West had stagnating population growth that made it possible to have wealth growth. Everybody else had exponentially exploding population (also unsustainable, but prohibited to become rich on the individual level) that from the evolutionary perceptive gave everyone much higher benefits. Now the fossil fuel usage in the West is stagnating or even decreasing. If China will not play along then everybody will loose. Even when the West would stop its fossil fuel usage tomorrow, the total amount of fossil fuel usage will keep growing. Everybody will loose but until it happens, China will stay on top while everybody else will start suffering already today. Everyone who is smart will not play along in this game. The only real solution is possible when China start cooperating.
gmuslera 3y ago
Do what you can control. If everyone waits till all the rest take a step forward no one will. Until is too late, of course, then everyone loses.
- genman 3y ago
  It does not come for free. If China can at the same time use cheaper cost of production to compete against countries that have to increase their cost then other countries will loose. In both scenario everybody loses in the end but in the first scenario China will come out on top until then. The only winnable long term strategy is when China will play along all the time.
  - gmuslera 3y ago
    There will be no savings nor winners is no one moves a finger. Doing nothing will have infinite cost.
    - genman 3y ago
      Let me repeat the main point. If China does not participate then everyone is doomed. If China does not participate then everyone else who will participate will start suffering right now and will be still doomed while China will stay on top until the end. Doing something while China does not participate is meaningless self delusion.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - graphe 3y ago
      America with more stringent environmental laws will do more to combat carbon emissions, and manufacturing will move overseas. China makes more carbon. Is this your win?
      - gmuslera 3y ago

Focus on 95% of 5% or focus on 20% of 95%? You're choosing #1.

by graphe 3y ago

Focus on 95% of 5% or focus on 20% of 95%? You're choosing #1.

China is hit by climate change too. Every side has to fix theirs first or how could you (rich west, that profited mostly from unsustainable economic growth) ever make demands to anyone else. Take it from the game theory perspective. Everyone or noone. And which side is the easiest to change? To me, the answer is simple and just pointing at whataboutthem is just short sighted, like building a wall to fix internal crime rates.

graphe 3y ago
A dike had a large and small hole with that logic will be underwater.
- throwawayqqq11 3y ago
  A large hole that one cannot reach. Game theroy requires at least two participants. Sounds logical now?
genman 3y ago
Everybody took advantage. The West had stagnating population growth that made it possible to have wealth growth. Everybody else had exponentially exploding population (also unsustainable, but prohibited to become rich on the individual level) that from the evolutionary perceptive gave everyone much higher benefits. Now the fossil fuel usage in the West is stagnating or even decreasing. If China will not play along then everybody will loose. Even when the West would stop its fossil fuel usage tomorrow, the total amount of fossil fuel usage will keep growing. Everybody will loose but until it happens, China will stay on top while everybody else will start suffering already today. Everyone who is smart will not play along in this game. The only real solution is possible when China start cooperating.

gmuslera 3y ago

Do what you can control. If everyone waits till all the rest take a step forward no one will. Until is too late, of course, then everyone loses.

genman 3y ago
It does not come for free. If China can at the same time use cheaper cost of production to compete against countries that have to increase their cost then other countries will loose. In both scenario everybody loses in the end but in the first scenario China will come out on top until then. The only winnable long term strategy is when China will play along all the time.
- gmuslera 3y ago
  There will be no savings nor winners is no one moves a finger. Doing nothing will have infinite cost.
  - genman 3y ago
    Let me repeat the main point. If China does not participate then everyone is doomed. If China does not participate then everyone else who will participate will start suffering right now and will be still doomed while China will stay on top until the end. Doing something while China does not participate is meaningless self delusion.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - graphe 3y ago
    America with more stringent environmental laws will do more to combat carbon emissions, and manufacturing will move overseas. China makes more carbon. Is this your win?
    - gmuslera 3y ago