4 ms·

In America, the reverse is true. Most French words are butchered, most Spanish words are at least pronounced properly (sometimes with an accent). I suspect it

In America, the reverse is true. Most French words are butchered, most Spanish words are at least pronounced properly (sometimes with an accent). I suspect it has something to do with proximity to native speakers of the language, as France (effectively) borders the UK and Mexico borders the US.

amyjess 3y ago
> In America, the reverse is true. Most French words are butchered And inconsistently so! I've had jury duty several times, and nobody can agree on how to pronounce voir dire. Some courts say "vwahr deer" which is a decent approximation of the French pronunciation, and others say "vore dyer". And while I haven't heard it myself, I wouldn't be surprised if some people pronounce voir as "voyeur".
- shinycode 3y ago
  vwaar deer is close enough but the prononciation is condensed so the r and double e are not strong. No emphasis whatsoever
  - idontpost 3y ago
    [dead]
- renaudg 3y ago
  French person here, I have no idea what "voir dire" means. It's literally "see say".
  - hollerith 3y ago
    Voir dire has a technical meaning among lawyers in the English-speaking countries.
  - akavi 3y ago
    It's Anglo-Norman[0], and means "to tell the truth" ("voir" being cognates with modern French "vrai", not "voir") [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Norman_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Norman_language
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - VHRanger 3y ago
    It's a court procedure where you ask questions to an expert witness to verify they know what they're talking about
    - qingcharles 3y ago
      Interesting that you mention that use. I've spent thousands of hours in court and never heard the term applied to expert witnesses, perhaps because their background is often stipulated. The use the public would be most familiar with is the interrogation of the jury pool, by both parties, to make sure they are suitable (e.g. suitably biased) jurors before trial: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voir_dire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voir_dire
- CogitoCogito 3y ago
  Did the various pronunciations cause any problems? If I’m honest, it doesn’t sound like a big deal to me.
jhbadger 3y ago
And yet The US pronounces "herb" correctly (as "erb") while the UK, pronounces it like the name Herb, with an H.
- kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
  And the British still insist on using article "an" before aspirated H-words as if they're all pretending to be posh cockneys.
  - lebuffon 3y ago
    But some American dialects (midwest?) have dropped the use of "the" with a long 'e' before words beginning with a vowel.(ie: thee apple) It sounds bizarre to me to use the short 'e'.
    - fuzztester 3y ago
      Some Americans whom I've met (I think Midwest ones, but not sure), also pronounce the word "often" as oft-en (but without any pause). I don't know how the British pronounce it. In India (having learnt somewhat British English), we pronounce it as "ofen", sort of rhyming with oxen. And of course there is the famous "shedule" vs "skedule" pronunciation for schedule.
  - noneeeed 3y ago
    You've lost me a bit on this. Are you saying people who don't pronounce their aches should use "a" and not "an"? Because that would sound weird trying to pronouce two vowels like that. We have two main ways of saying words like "hotel". I (with a rather non-descript vaguely southern accent) pronounce the H in hotel, and so say "a hotel". Many people from London and the south east (especially Essex and the parts of the home counties that has a large influx of North Londoners) will generally drop their leading "H" and say "an 'otel". There is a third accent which is a minority, the rather extreme upper class accent where they also drop a lot of their leading Hs, and therefore use "an". That's not "posh cockney", that's just "posh", a lot of them have always spoken like that. Even among the posh I'd rank that accent as relatively rare these days. Id does all lead to the occasional argument among slightly dull people about whether you should write "an hotel" or "a hotel".
tomcam 3y ago
> most Spanish words are at least pronounced properly (sometimes with an accent) And that accent is almost never Spanish. It’s either Mexican, Cuban, or Puerto Rican. My Spanish accent is very much Chicano, because I grew up in such a neighborhood in Southern California. Castilian Spanish sounds effete to me, and of course I sound uneducated to someone from Madrid. Also, these pronunciations are far more common in the coastal states than flyover country.
- anthk 3y ago
  >from Madrid 90% of the speech outside of the big towns/cities, the Castilles and maybe Cantabria will sound uneducated or 'hick' to a Madrileño. Specially Aragon, Murcia, Extremadura and the infamous Andalusia where even the Risitas guy can be extremely hard to understand to natives outside Andalusia.
  - tomcam 3y ago
    Fascinating! Thank you for the correction.

amyjess 3y ago

> In America, the reverse is true. Most French words are butchered And inconsistently so! I've had jury duty several times, and nobody can agree on how to pronounce voir dire. Some courts say "vwahr deer" which is a decent approximation of the French pronunciation, and others say "vore dyer". And while I haven't heard it myself, I wouldn't be surprised if some people pronounce voir as "voyeur".

shinycode 3y ago
vwaar deer is close enough but the prononciation is condensed so the r and double e are not strong. No emphasis whatsoever
- idontpost 3y ago
  [dead]
renaudg 3y ago
French person here, I have no idea what "voir dire" means. It's literally "see say".
- hollerith 3y ago
  Voir dire has a technical meaning among lawyers in the English-speaking countries.
- akavi 3y ago
  It's Anglo-Norman[0], and means "to tell the truth" ("voir" being cognates with modern French "vrai", not "voir") [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Norman_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Norman_language
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- VHRanger 3y ago
  It's a court procedure where you ask questions to an expert witness to verify they know what they're talking about
  - qingcharles 3y ago
    Interesting that you mention that use. I've spent thousands of hours in court and never heard the term applied to expert witnesses, perhaps because their background is often stipulated. The use the public would be most familiar with is the interrogation of the jury pool, by both parties, to make sure they are suitable (e.g. suitably biased) jurors before trial: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voir_dire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voir_dire
CogitoCogito 3y ago
Did the various pronunciations cause any problems? If I’m honest, it doesn’t sound like a big deal to me.

jhbadger 3y ago

And yet The US pronounces "herb" correctly (as "erb") while the UK, pronounces it like the name Herb, with an H.

kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
And the British still insist on using article "an" before aspirated H-words as if they're all pretending to be posh cockneys.
- lebuffon 3y ago
  But some American dialects (midwest?) have dropped the use of "the" with a long 'e' before words beginning with a vowel.(ie: thee apple) It sounds bizarre to me to use the short 'e'.
  - fuzztester 3y ago
    Some Americans whom I've met (I think Midwest ones, but not sure), also pronounce the word "often" as oft-en (but without any pause). I don't know how the British pronounce it. In India (having learnt somewhat British English), we pronounce it as "ofen", sort of rhyming with oxen. And of course there is the famous "shedule" vs "skedule" pronunciation for schedule.
- noneeeed 3y ago
  You've lost me a bit on this. Are you saying people who don't pronounce their aches should use "a" and not "an"? Because that would sound weird trying to pronouce two vowels like that. We have two main ways of saying words like "hotel". I (with a rather non-descript vaguely southern accent) pronounce the H in hotel, and so say "a hotel". Many people from London and the south east (especially Essex and the parts of the home counties that has a large influx of North Londoners) will generally drop their leading "H" and say "an 'otel". There is a third accent which is a minority, the rather extreme upper class accent where they also drop a lot of their leading Hs, and therefore use "an". That's not "posh cockney", that's just "posh", a lot of them have always spoken like that. Even among the posh I'd rank that accent as relatively rare these days. Id does all lead to the occasional argument among slightly dull people about whether you should write "an hotel" or "a hotel".

tomcam 3y ago

> most Spanish words are at least pronounced properly (sometimes with an accent) And that accent is almost never Spanish. It’s either Mexican, Cuban, or Puerto Rican. My Spanish accent is very much Chicano, because I grew up in such a neighborhood in Southern California. Castilian Spanish sounds effete to me, and of course I sound uneducated to someone from Madrid. Also, these pronunciations are far more common in the coastal states than flyover country.

anthk 3y ago
>from Madrid 90% of the speech outside of the big towns/cities, the Castilles and maybe Cantabria will sound uneducated or 'hick' to a Madrileño. Specially Aragon, Murcia, Extremadura and the infamous Andalusia where even the Risitas guy can be extremely hard to understand to natives outside Andalusia.
- tomcam 3y ago
  Fascinating! Thank you for the correction.