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I was in my 20s and remember the feeling in the air after Al Qaeda members hijacked commercial planes and flew them into WTC in 2001. Fear, Anger, A bit of reve

I was in my 20s and remember the feeling in the air after Al Qaeda members hijacked commercial planes and flew them into WTC in 2001. Fear, Anger, A bit of revenge. Many of Americans, including soviet immigrants, enlisted in the army driven by that feeling. Israelis lost significantly more of their population percentage-wise during October 7 attack perpetrated by the official government of Gaza AND as we know now, some Gazan civilians. Over 200 Israelis were taken hostage. With that in mind, its fairly simple for me to empathize with the Israeli public who are angry at the death of their fellow citizens and want Hamas to be punished.

moogly 3y ago
> its fairly simple for me to empathize with the Israeli public who are angry at the death of their fellow citizens and want Hamas to be punished Definitely. Conversely, it should also be fairly simple to empathize with the Palestinian public in the (just picking one fairly recent example) Operation Cast Iron aftermath.
ESTheComposer 3y ago
A bit of a strange take considering every one of your points applies much more to Palestine than Israel. >I was in my 20s and remember the feeling in the air after Al Qaeda members hijacked commercial planes and flew them into WTC in 2001. Fear, Anger, A bit of revenge Yeah the people in Gaza feel that pretty much every day >Many of Americans, including soviet immigrants, enlisted in the army driven by that feeling. They also feel this, which leads to them joining Hamas and is part of the reason there are normal Palestinians who support Hamas. Terrorists don't come out of no where. >Israelis lost significantly more of their population percentage-wise during October 7 attack perpetrated by the official government of Gaza AND as we know now, some Gazan civilians. Yeah I mean again just flip that and the people in Gaza experience that at a much higher rate >With that in mind, its fairly simple for me to empathize with the Israeli public who are angry at the death of their fellow citizens and want Hamas to be punished. Same but I also empathize with all the Palestinians just trying to live their lives in an open air prison and want revenge. I think both Hamas and Israel have genocidal intent, but one has much more power and is actually carrying it out right now.
Sporktacular 3y ago
Hamas barely scraped into victory in a power sharing agreement it then broke. Gazan at that time did not want this government. Half of Gaza's present population wasn't even born at the time of the last election. To blame Palestinians generally (including in the West Bank who are effectively being punished too) for this is exceedingly unfair. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/was-hamas-elected-to-govern-gaza-george-w-bush-2006-palestinian-election.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/was-hamas-electe... Compare culpability with Israel's, which IS a functioning democracy, has had regular elections, a free press, a large population participating in the war and actively in favour of it - and blaming the average Gazan is even less fair. Feeling like revenge isn't good enough.
- ApolloFortyNine 3y ago
  Poll showing 75% in Gaza believe the attack on Israel was correct. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palesti... Seeing how they literally took hostages, in addition to targeting and killing civilians, I'm honestly not sure how you can argue it wasn't a terrorist attack.
  - Sporktacular 3y ago
    75% of a population indoctrinated for years by a violent group of thugs (partially supported by the current Israeli PM). But that still doesn't justify slaughtering them in a fit of vengeance. Check the numbers for a gloves off response within Israel and we see the cycle of vengeance you seem fond of. I didn't argue it wasn't a terrorist attack.
    - ApolloFortyNine 3y ago
      >But that still doesn't justify slaughtering them in a fit of vengeance. I didn't say it did, I just wanted to show that the population of Gaza does seem to condone terrorism as a whole, and it's not a small minority as you were making it sound. Also if Israel wanted to slaughter everyone in Gaza they could do it almost over night. And it wouldn't require nuclear weapons, they possess more than enough conventional weapons to do so. Hamas has been shown to keep and fire their weapons in population centers, it makes it incredibly difficult to truly minimize casualties. If Israel wanted to maximize civilian casualties, they easily could. >cycle of vengeance you seem fond of. Seriously my comment was simple, not sure why you think I condoned 'vengeance'.

moogly 3y ago

> its fairly simple for me to empathize with the Israeli public who are angry at the death of their fellow citizens and want Hamas to be punished Definitely. Conversely, it should also be fairly simple to empathize with the Palestinian public in the (just picking one fairly recent example) Operation Cast Iron aftermath.

ESTheComposer 3y ago

A bit of a strange take considering every one of your points applies much more to Palestine than Israel. >I was in my 20s and remember the feeling in the air after Al Qaeda members hijacked commercial planes and flew them into WTC in 2001. Fear, Anger, A bit of revenge Yeah the people in Gaza feel that pretty much every day >Many of Americans, including soviet immigrants, enlisted in the army driven by that feeling. They also feel this, which leads to them joining Hamas and is part of the reason there are normal Palestinians who support Hamas. Terrorists don't come out of no where. >Israelis lost significantly more of their population percentage-wise during October 7 attack perpetrated by the official government of Gaza AND as we know now, some Gazan civilians. Yeah I mean again just flip that and the people in Gaza experience that at a much higher rate >With that in mind, its fairly simple for me to empathize with the Israeli public who are angry at the death of their fellow citizens and want Hamas to be punished. Same but I also empathize with all the Palestinians just trying to live their lives in an open air prison and want revenge. I think both Hamas and Israel have genocidal intent, but one has much more power and is actually carrying it out right now.

Sporktacular 3y ago

Hamas barely scraped into victory in a power sharing agreement it then broke. Gazan at that time did not want this government. Half of Gaza's present population wasn't even born at the time of the last election. To blame Palestinians generally (including in the West Bank who are effectively being punished too) for this is exceedingly unfair. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/was-hamas-elected-to-govern-gaza-george-w-bush-2006-palestinian-election.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/was-hamas-electe... Compare culpability with Israel's, which IS a functioning democracy, has had regular elections, a free press, a large population participating in the war and actively in favour of it - and blaming the average Gazan is even less fair. Feeling like revenge isn't good enough.

ApolloFortyNine 3y ago
Poll showing 75% in Gaza believe the attack on Israel was correct. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palesti... Seeing how they literally took hostages, in addition to targeting and killing civilians, I'm honestly not sure how you can argue it wasn't a terrorist attack.
- Sporktacular 3y ago
  75% of a population indoctrinated for years by a violent group of thugs (partially supported by the current Israeli PM). But that still doesn't justify slaughtering them in a fit of vengeance. Check the numbers for a gloves off response within Israel and we see the cycle of vengeance you seem fond of. I didn't argue it wasn't a terrorist attack.
  - ApolloFortyNine 3y ago
    >But that still doesn't justify slaughtering them in a fit of vengeance. I didn't say it did, I just wanted to show that the population of Gaza does seem to condone terrorism as a whole, and it's not a small minority as you were making it sound. Also if Israel wanted to slaughter everyone in Gaza they could do it almost over night. And it wouldn't require nuclear weapons, they possess more than enough conventional weapons to do so. Hamas has been shown to keep and fire their weapons in population centers, it makes it incredibly difficult to truly minimize casualties. If Israel wanted to maximize civilian casualties, they easily could. >cycle of vengeance you seem fond of. Seriously my comment was simple, not sure why you think I condoned 'vengeance'.