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Personally, I don't think this works in real life. Consumers catch on to dishonest business practices and want choose new market options if/when they becomes av

by asow92 3y ago

Personally, I don't think this works in real life. Consumers catch on to dishonest business practices and want choose new market options if/when they becomes available, and do not need a nanny state to pick winners and losers. If anything, excessive regulation and legal hurdles impede and prevent this market force from working as it should. Internet providers in the US are a perfect example of this in action: why would these virtual monopolies want to provide a better product if it's so hard for competition to materialize? They are incentivized to offer a less than ideal product while also lobbying for increased or maintained regulation to ensure the status quo. This isn't capitalism, but cronyism. Also, which startups are thriving in Europe with global appeal? Genuinely, un-sarcastically, curious.

hnlmorg 3y ago
> Consumers catch on to dishonest business practices and want choose new market options if/when they becomes available, That almost never happens > Internet providers in the US are a perfect example of this in action: why would these virtual monopolies want to provide a better product if it's so hard for competition to materialize? Infrastructure costs is why you don’t see hundreds of competitors. New companies either need the capital to build new infrastructure, in which case they are usually more expensive due to economies of scale, or they have to resell someone else’s infrastructure. In which case they can only be as good as the monopolies. The ironic thing is in the UK there aren’t any monopolies in ISP. There is lots of healthy competition. So your example regarding deregulation proves the opposite of your point.
- asow92 3y ago
  > That almost never happens I beg to differ. https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/08/28/undercharged-iphone-14-owners-complain-about-lower-battery-endurance https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/08/28/undercharged-ipho... https://www.reddit.com/r/Spectrum/comments/ln0id2/spectrum_lies_violations_and_fraud/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Spectrum/comments/ln0id2/spectrum_l... https://www.thisoldhouse.com/home-finances/reviews/worst-home-warranty-companies https://www.thisoldhouse.com/home-finances/reviews/worst-hom... https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/13/23637401/samsung-fake-moon-photos-ai-galaxy-s21-s23-ultra https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/13/23637401/samsung-fake-moo... https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2018/02/01/bad-reputation-americas-top-20-most-hated-companies/1058718001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2018/02/01/bad...
  - hnlmorg 3y ago
    They just prove my point. Take the last link, for example, United Airlines scores low in customer satisfaction yet people still fly with them. Facebook might be hated yet people still use it. Most people either too lazy or too cheap to boycott businesses they don’t like. And that’s assuming they even have a choice, because often there really isn’t much of an alternative to choose from.
    - asow92 3y ago
      People don’t have to fly United. People don’t have to use Facebook.
      - hnlmorg 3y ago
        That’s exactly my point. They don’t have to, yet they do. Hence why you’re wrong in claiming that people are principled enough to boycott businesses at a scale that makes any difference to that business. You claim that badly behaved businesses would just lose the custom and yet all the evidence out there proves that just doesn’t happen. Or at least not to the extent that amounts to anything more than a rounding error on their books.
        asow92 3y ago
        > they don’t have to, yet they do I had said that, “Consumers catch on to dishonest business practices and want [to] choose new market options if/when they become available”. So you agree then? And ya know what, I think that’s BS: you definitely have a choice and if you think you can’t follow through you’re weak. You definitely don’t need to use facebook for anything and you don’t need to fly either. It’s a choice, mate, and if you don’t think you have a choice you’re weak.
        hnlmorg 3y ago
        > So you agree then? No, we are arguing the exact opposite. > And ya know what, I think that’s BS: you definitely have a choice and if you think you can’t follow through you’re weak. It’s not bullshit. Different people just have different priorities to yourself. Do you think the average person gives a shit about ethical software? Or even has enough time and/or money to boycott businesses that they don’t like? No they don’t. Businesses are just services and once they’ve finished using a product they move on with their lives. You calling people names because they care about different concerns to you is the real issue here.

by asow92 3y ago

hnlmorg 3y ago

> Consumers catch on to dishonest business practices and want choose new market options if/when they becomes available, That almost never happens > Internet providers in the US are a perfect example of this in action: why would these virtual monopolies want to provide a better product if it's so hard for competition to materialize? Infrastructure costs is why you don’t see hundreds of competitors. New companies either need the capital to build new infrastructure, in which case they are usually more expensive due to economies of scale, or they have to resell someone else’s infrastructure. In which case they can only be as good as the monopolies. The ironic thing is in the UK there aren’t any monopolies in ISP. There is lots of healthy competition. So your example regarding deregulation proves the opposite of your point.

asow92 3y ago
> That almost never happens I beg to differ. https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/08/28/undercharged-iphone-14-owners-complain-about-lower-battery-endurance https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/08/28/undercharged-ipho... https://www.reddit.com/r/Spectrum/comments/ln0id2/spectrum_lies_violations_and_fraud/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Spectrum/comments/ln0id2/spectrum_l... https://www.thisoldhouse.com/home-finances/reviews/worst-home-warranty-companies https://www.thisoldhouse.com/home-finances/reviews/worst-hom... https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/13/23637401/samsung-fake-moon-photos-ai-galaxy-s21-s23-ultra https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/13/23637401/samsung-fake-moo... https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2018/02/01/bad-reputation-americas-top-20-most-hated-companies/1058718001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2018/02/01/bad...
- hnlmorg 3y ago
  They just prove my point. Take the last link, for example, United Airlines scores low in customer satisfaction yet people still fly with them. Facebook might be hated yet people still use it. Most people either too lazy or too cheap to boycott businesses they don’t like. And that’s assuming they even have a choice, because often there really isn’t much of an alternative to choose from.
  - asow92 3y ago
    People don’t have to fly United. People don’t have to use Facebook.
    - hnlmorg 3y ago
      That’s exactly my point. They don’t have to, yet they do. Hence why you’re wrong in claiming that people are principled enough to boycott businesses at a scale that makes any difference to that business. You claim that badly behaved businesses would just lose the custom and yet all the evidence out there proves that just doesn’t happen. Or at least not to the extent that amounts to anything more than a rounding error on their books.
      - asow92 3y ago
        > they don’t have to, yet they do I had said that, “Consumers catch on to dishonest business practices and want [to] choose new market options if/when they become available”. So you agree then? And ya know what, I think that’s BS: you definitely have a choice and if you think you can’t follow through you’re weak. You definitely don’t need to use facebook for anything and you don’t need to fly either. It’s a choice, mate, and if you don’t think you have a choice you’re weak.
        hnlmorg 3y ago
        > So you agree then? No, we are arguing the exact opposite. > And ya know what, I think that’s BS: you definitely have a choice and if you think you can’t follow through you’re weak. It’s not bullshit. Different people just have different priorities to yourself. Do you think the average person gives a shit about ethical software? Or even has enough time and/or money to boycott businesses that they don’t like? No they don’t. Businesses are just services and once they’ve finished using a product they move on with their lives. You calling people names because they care about different concerns to you is the real issue here.