5 ms·

For example (1998) https://www.wired.com/1998/09/microsoft-subpoenas-bad-attitude/ https://www.wired.com/1998/09/microsoft-subpoenas-bad-attitu... (not linkin

For example (1998) https://www.wired.com/1998/09/microsoft-subpoenas-bad-attitude/ https://www.wired.com/1998/09/microsoft-subpoenas-bad-attitu... (not linking to jwz's own recollection of the event, due to HN referral trap)

em-bee 3y ago
(why not link? it's not like we don't know how to circumvent that) https://www.jwz.org/gruntle/rbarip.html https://www.jwz.org/gruntle/rbarip.html about that list, i am sorry, but i don't feel that badmouthing anyone is healthy ever. doing that in a group is not catharsis but it is reinforcing bad attitudes, discontent or even hatred. that is not something i want in my company. if any of my employees set up such a list or forum, i would tell them to stop that immediately, under threat of being fired if they didn't comply. not because of the risks involved, but because i do not want anyone to think that doing that is ok. it isn't! Perhaps its best to just never say anything that you wouldn't want published.
- lazide 3y ago
  Sure, but that doesn’t mean people don’t do it all the time.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    some people maybe. but that is not an excuse. and it's not healthy to encourage others either.
    - lazide 3y ago
      Who was encouraging anyone? Noting people murder each other too doesn’t encourage it. If one would prefer to not have folks murdering each other near them, if anything it can help them keep an eye out better.
      - em-bee 3y ago
        creating a list/forum to mouth off is encouragement. in one case to join you has to mouth off really bad. and leaders thanking the existence of the list...
        lazide 3y ago
        I think we’re talking about vastly different things.
        em-bee 3y ago
        apparently we are now. the thread from the beginning was about spaces where people can badmouth others without reprisal. i read your question in that context. some people doing this all the time, is not an excuse, and the existence of such spaces encourages that kind of behavior. no more no less. regarding murder, lynch mobs did exist, and they were also encouraged by allowing them to gather and normalizing that behavior. it's not talking about murder that encourages it, it's talking about it in a positive way that does. groups that tolerate bad behavior generally tend to end up encouraging it if they don't put a stop to it. there are plenty of examples for that out there. just think about protests go out of hand. one person breaks a window, sets a trash can on fire, steals something from a shop and more people join in. the only way to stop that is to keep ourselves in check and not allow such behavior but stop it when it happens. allowing those lists to be created did the opposite. if you need to badmouth something, find a therapist.
        lazide 3y ago
        I think we're saying the same thing, you're just angrier about it - and seem to be pointing at me. Which seems impolite.
        em-bee 3y ago
        I think we're saying the same thing that would be great, but i didn't have that impression. statements like people do it all the time and you asking who is encouraging anyone made it look like you didn't agree. in particular the claim that people do it all the time is often used as an excuse to allow such behavior to continue. i am not angry at you. i am sorry if it looks like that. i am however angry at the attitude that because such behavior is common and it should be tolerated. which is how i interpreted your response. if i misread that, i apologize.

em-bee 3y ago

(why not link? it's not like we don't know how to circumvent that) https://www.jwz.org/gruntle/rbarip.html https://www.jwz.org/gruntle/rbarip.html about that list, i am sorry, but i don't feel that badmouthing anyone is healthy ever. doing that in a group is not catharsis but it is reinforcing bad attitudes, discontent or even hatred. that is not something i want in my company. if any of my employees set up such a list or forum, i would tell them to stop that immediately, under threat of being fired if they didn't comply. not because of the risks involved, but because i do not want anyone to think that doing that is ok. it isn't! Perhaps its best to just never say anything that you wouldn't want published.

lazide 3y ago
Sure, but that doesn’t mean people don’t do it all the time.
- em-bee 3y ago
  some people maybe. but that is not an excuse. and it's not healthy to encourage others either.
  - lazide 3y ago
    Who was encouraging anyone? Noting people murder each other too doesn’t encourage it. If one would prefer to not have folks murdering each other near them, if anything it can help them keep an eye out better.
    - em-bee 3y ago
      creating a list/forum to mouth off is encouragement. in one case to join you has to mouth off really bad. and leaders thanking the existence of the list...
      - lazide 3y ago
        I think we’re talking about vastly different things.
        em-bee 3y ago
        apparently we are now. the thread from the beginning was about spaces where people can badmouth others without reprisal. i read your question in that context. some people doing this all the time, is not an excuse, and the existence of such spaces encourages that kind of behavior. no more no less. regarding murder, lynch mobs did exist, and they were also encouraged by allowing them to gather and normalizing that behavior. it's not talking about murder that encourages it, it's talking about it in a positive way that does. groups that tolerate bad behavior generally tend to end up encouraging it if they don't put a stop to it. there are plenty of examples for that out there. just think about protests go out of hand. one person breaks a window, sets a trash can on fire, steals something from a shop and more people join in. the only way to stop that is to keep ourselves in check and not allow such behavior but stop it when it happens. allowing those lists to be created did the opposite. if you need to badmouth something, find a therapist.
        lazide 3y ago
        I think we're saying the same thing, you're just angrier about it - and seem to be pointing at me. Which seems impolite.
        em-bee 3y ago
        I think we're saying the same thing that would be great, but i didn't have that impression. statements like people do it all the time and you asking who is encouraging anyone made it look like you didn't agree. in particular the claim that people do it all the time is often used as an excuse to allow such behavior to continue. i am not angry at you. i am sorry if it looks like that. i am however angry at the attitude that because such behavior is common and it should be tolerated. which is how i interpreted your response. if i misread that, i apologize.