4 ms·

Batteries (High capacity chemical) are terrible for long term storage, namely they are toxic: https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/poison/dry-cell-battery

Batteries (High capacity chemical) are terrible for long term storage, namely they are toxic: https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/poison/dry-cell-battery-poisoning https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/poison/dry-cell-ba... https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/002805.htm https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/002805.htm https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-703-health-concerns-with-batteries https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-703-health-concerns... And cannot always be easily recycled: https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2023-09/Lithium-Ion-Batteries-Fact-Sheet-8-2023.pdf https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2023-09/Lithium-I... In addition to general concerns about chemical availability, and processing issues. E.g. Demand expected to outstrip supply as soon as next year: https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insights/latest-news/metals/012622-infographic-the-lithium-deficit-road-map-will-future-supply-meet-demand https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insight...

lukan 3y ago
"Batteries are terrible for long term storage, namely they are toxic" Only some are toxic. But can you name the poison or danger with saltwater batteries? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-ion_battery https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-ion_battery
- smaudet 3y ago
  Yes, there are excellent non-"battery" technologies. I'm explicitly talking about the high capacity chemical batteries everyone's crazy for these days.
  - lukan 3y ago
    Sodium ion batteries are chemical and can have as much capacity as you like. They just need a bit more space, but not too much more, as they are already used in cheaper electric cars. "Chinese automaker Yiwei debuted the first sodium-ion battery-powered car in 2023. It uses JAC Group’s UE module technology, which is similar to CATL's cell-to-pack design.[82] The car has a 23.2 kWh battery pack with a CLTC range of 230 kilometres (140 mi)." And for grid storage, "slightly bigger size" really doesn't matter.
  - cbmuser 3y ago
    A nuclear reaction has a factor of one million more energy per Mol as compared to chemical reactions. Why would want to build an enery system on low-energy-density technology? That would be equivalent to using relays for building computers in 2024.
NotSammyHagar 3y ago
There's also various schemes to use gravity. Pump water uphill above a dam when power demand is low like at night, also I have read speculation of trying to do this in some underground mine or something so it doesn't evaporate.
- cbmuser 3y ago
  That has even a worse energy density and thus requires a lot of space. We have nuclear energy, we don’t need to use technology from the medieval ages.

lukan 3y ago

"Batteries are terrible for long term storage, namely they are toxic" Only some are toxic. But can you name the poison or danger with saltwater batteries? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-ion_battery https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-ion_battery

smaudet 3y ago
Yes, there are excellent non-"battery" technologies. I'm explicitly talking about the high capacity chemical batteries everyone's crazy for these days.
- lukan 3y ago
  Sodium ion batteries are chemical and can have as much capacity as you like. They just need a bit more space, but not too much more, as they are already used in cheaper electric cars. "Chinese automaker Yiwei debuted the first sodium-ion battery-powered car in 2023. It uses JAC Group’s UE module technology, which is similar to CATL's cell-to-pack design.[82] The car has a 23.2 kWh battery pack with a CLTC range of 230 kilometres (140 mi)." And for grid storage, "slightly bigger size" really doesn't matter.
- cbmuser 3y ago
  A nuclear reaction has a factor of one million more energy per Mol as compared to chemical reactions. Why would want to build an enery system on low-energy-density technology? That would be equivalent to using relays for building computers in 2024.

NotSammyHagar 3y ago

There's also various schemes to use gravity. Pump water uphill above a dam when power demand is low like at night, also I have read speculation of trying to do this in some underground mine or something so it doesn't evaporate.

cbmuser 3y ago
That has even a worse energy density and thus requires a lot of space. We have nuclear energy, we don’t need to use technology from the medieval ages.