8 ms·

Title: "As solar capacity grows, duck curves are getting deeper in California" HN title is exactly backwards, but gets at the insight that the operator demand

Title: "As solar capacity grows, duck curves are getting deeper in California" HN title is exactly backwards, but gets at the insight that the operator demand in California is almost at zero -- or neutral -- during the day due to behind the meter solar.

boringg 3y ago
Right, I read this as the duck curve had inverted back to a neutral load curve. To be fair though I feel like I may be fairly familiar to the duck curve compared to most people.
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
This graph (and "net load" generally) includes the subtraction of both behind and in front of the meter solar, as well as wind. Doesn't really affect the point though. Worth noting that this graph represents the single worst/best day of the year, when demand was lowest and supply highest. The trend over years is obvious but sadly we're not as close to carbon free power in California as this would suggest if you assumed it was an average day.
kccqzy 3y ago
Note that demand being at zero doesn't mean we are shutting down power plants. Nuclear, for example, is baseload and basically never shuts down. But California does export a lot of energy when the net demand is low. And of course charging batteries is an even bigger part of it.
- zer00eyz 3y ago
  >> is baseload and basically never shuts down https://www.rstreet.org/commentary/understanding-negative-prices-in-the-texas-electricity-market/ https://www.rstreet.org/commentary/understanding-negative-pr... Renewables like solar and wind have already changed our grid so dramatically that "baseline" is sometimes finding ways to dump power off the grid. Texas going negative is a harbinger of things to come. The duck curve, the uneven generation of solar and wind, means that "baseline" solutions like nuclear (and coal) aren't responsive or flexible enough.

8 ms·

Title: "As solar capacity grows, duck curves are getting deeper in California" HN title is exactly backwards, but gets at the insight that the operator demand

by datadrivenangel 3y ago

boringg 3y ago
Right, I read this as the duck curve had inverted back to a neutral load curve. To be fair though I feel like I may be fairly familiar to the duck curve compared to most people.
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
This graph (and "net load" generally) includes the subtraction of both behind and in front of the meter solar, as well as wind. Doesn't really affect the point though. Worth noting that this graph represents the single worst/best day of the year, when demand was lowest and supply highest. The trend over years is obvious but sadly we're not as close to carbon free power in California as this would suggest if you assumed it was an average day.
kccqzy 3y ago
Note that demand being at zero doesn't mean we are shutting down power plants. Nuclear, for example, is baseload and basically never shuts down. But California does export a lot of energy when the net demand is low. And of course charging batteries is an even bigger part of it.
- zer00eyz 3y ago
  >> is baseload and basically never shuts down https://www.rstreet.org/commentary/understanding-negative-prices-in-the-texas-electricity-market/ https://www.rstreet.org/commentary/understanding-negative-pr... Renewables like solar and wind have already changed our grid so dramatically that "baseline" is sometimes finding ways to dump power off the grid. Texas going negative is a harbinger of things to come. The duck curve, the uneven generation of solar and wind, means that "baseline" solutions like nuclear (and coal) aren't responsive or flexible enough.