5 ms·

HTMX 2.0.0-alpha1 has been released

47 points by vyrotek 3y ago

recursivedoubts 3y ago
hey folks didn't expect this to make HN, this is a very early alpha: - the docs are not complete - the extensions website is not up (https://extensions.htmx.org https://extensions.htmx.org, lmao) - we haven't done any field testing yet (this is us field testing) that said, if you are using htmx and are willing to test out the alpha version and report issues, we would appreciate it our hope is that most htmx users will be able to upgrade w/o any major changes
- emacsen 3y ago
  I'd be very interested in a comparison of htmx 2 vs Unpoly, since some of the issues Unpoly mentions seem in direct response to htmx, such as response code handling.
  - recursivedoubts 3y ago
    i didn't really look much at unpoly (which I admire), htmx is focused on generalizing hypermedia controls rather than competing w/ other libraries on features I did try to make more things configurable, for example the response code handling is now declarative rather than requiring you to hook into an event & you can turn off attribute inheritance if you don't like that conceptually the library didn't change at all
traverseda 3y ago
I'm a bit disappointed at the removal of SSE from core HTMX, mostly as I see SSE as being much more in-line with standard hypertext, and there does need to be some kind of server-push-long-polling-thingy. Not very disappointed, but I do wonder why it doesn't ship with SSE as standard.
- lagt_t 3y ago
  IIRC it was considered scope creep.
- recursivedoubts 3y ago
  yeah, it was a hard decision pulling sse and web socket support out, but we've done that already in the 1.x line: the hx-ws and hx-sse attributes are deprecated in favor of extensions: https://htmx.org/docs/#websockets-and-sse https://htmx.org/docs/#websockets-and-sse our feeling was that, to do those things right would require a fair bit of code and it wasn't fair to all htmx users to make them pay that freight, as these were more advanced features that many people would not be using another feature we didn't include was idiomorph-based swapping out of the box: https://htmx.org/docs/#morphing https://htmx.org/docs/#morphing that was really hard to not include because it's a neat algorithm that i came up w/ and it's going to be included in the next version of Rails, but, again didn't feel it was fair to make everyone pay for it
  - pseudosavant 3y ago
    FWIW, since it is so easy to include extensions, I think you made the right choice. That said, for the project I want to try HTMX out on, I will definitely be trying out idiomorph swapping. Sounds novel and useful.
  - jemmyw 3y ago
    That's interesting, I assumed htmx already did morph the dom this way. The company I work for has a similar but custom system in place they built 10 years ago that morphs the dom for those reasons (came up in a meeting last week, it was made before I joined). Shame it wasn't open sourced back then, it's pretty neat solution with websocket signalling to do multi user screen updates.
pseudosavant 3y ago
I've been following HTMX for quite a while but never noticed the haiku in the footer before. It feels like it accurately reflects the spirit of HTMX. It is making me think I should add haikus to my projects' README.md. javascript fatigue: longing for a hypertext already in hand
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
0xblinq 3y ago
And I still don’t get all the hype and marketing around it. Unpoly is so much better in every way you look at it. Most people seem to be using it just because “it’s popular” which ironically is the reason most people use React as well.
- lagt_t 3y ago
  Unpoly is 50kb, htmx is 15kb.
  - 0xblinq 3y ago
    Both are small enough for this to not matter. Unpoly also has many more features you’d have to add code for.
    - lagt_t 3y ago
      You see more features as better, I see them as unnecessary bloat. HTMX targets users that want easy and minimalist ajax.
      - 0xblinq 3y ago
        You see unnecessary bloat, I see wheel reinventions. Unpoly gives me almost everything I need for any non trivial app. Same thinking about using Django/Rails/Laravel vs bare bone routers like express, Sinatra or flask. Once you get past the simple landing page or hello world app all those things you call “bloat” come in super handy. Otherwise you end up with a custom undocumented untested unproven probably insecure rushed out implementation of what the “bloated” solution gives you. Same applies for Unpoly vs htmx. Unless you’re building just a hello world landing page, as I said.
        lagt_t 3y ago
        Can you give one example of a feature that is fundamental for web development that is enabled by unpoly and not htmx?

47 points by vyrotek 3y ago

hey folks didn't expect this to make HN, this is a very early alpha: - the docs are not complete - the extensions website is not up (https://extensions.htmx.org https://extensions.htmx.org, lmao) - we haven't done any field testing yet (this is us field testing) that said, if you are using htmx and are willing to test out the alpha version and report issues, we would appreciate it our hope is that most htmx users will be able to upgrade w/o any major changes

emacsen 3y ago
I'd be very interested in a comparison of htmx 2 vs Unpoly, since some of the issues Unpoly mentions seem in direct response to htmx, such as response code handling.
- recursivedoubts 3y ago
  i didn't really look much at unpoly (which I admire), htmx is focused on generalizing hypermedia controls rather than competing w/ other libraries on features I did try to make more things configurable, for example the response code handling is now declarative rather than requiring you to hook into an event & you can turn off attribute inheritance if you don't like that conceptually the library didn't change at all

traverseda 3y ago

I'm a bit disappointed at the removal of SSE from core HTMX, mostly as I see SSE as being much more in-line with standard hypertext, and there does need to be some kind of server-push-long-polling-thingy. Not very disappointed, but I do wonder why it doesn't ship with SSE as standard.

lagt_t 3y ago
IIRC it was considered scope creep.
recursivedoubts 3y ago
yeah, it was a hard decision pulling sse and web socket support out, but we've done that already in the 1.x line: the hx-ws and hx-sse attributes are deprecated in favor of extensions: https://htmx.org/docs/#websockets-and-sse https://htmx.org/docs/#websockets-and-sse our feeling was that, to do those things right would require a fair bit of code and it wasn't fair to all htmx users to make them pay that freight, as these were more advanced features that many people would not be using another feature we didn't include was idiomorph-based swapping out of the box: https://htmx.org/docs/#morphing https://htmx.org/docs/#morphing that was really hard to not include because it's a neat algorithm that i came up w/ and it's going to be included in the next version of Rails, but, again didn't feel it was fair to make everyone pay for it
- pseudosavant 3y ago
  FWIW, since it is so easy to include extensions, I think you made the right choice. That said, for the project I want to try HTMX out on, I will definitely be trying out idiomorph swapping. Sounds novel and useful.
- jemmyw 3y ago
  That's interesting, I assumed htmx already did morph the dom this way. The company I work for has a similar but custom system in place they built 10 years ago that morphs the dom for those reasons (came up in a meeting last week, it was made before I joined). Shame it wasn't open sourced back then, it's pretty neat solution with websocket signalling to do multi user screen updates.

pseudosavant 3y ago

I've been following HTMX for quite a while but never noticed the haiku in the footer before. It feels like it accurately reflects the spirit of HTMX. It is making me think I should add haikus to my projects' README.md. javascript fatigue: longing for a hypertext already in hand

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

0xblinq 3y ago

And I still don’t get all the hype and marketing around it. Unpoly is so much better in every way you look at it. Most people seem to be using it just because “it’s popular” which ironically is the reason most people use React as well.

lagt_t 3y ago
Unpoly is 50kb, htmx is 15kb.
- 0xblinq 3y ago
  Both are small enough for this to not matter. Unpoly also has many more features you’d have to add code for.
  - lagt_t 3y ago
    You see more features as better, I see them as unnecessary bloat. HTMX targets users that want easy and minimalist ajax.
    - 0xblinq 3y ago
      You see unnecessary bloat, I see wheel reinventions. Unpoly gives me almost everything I need for any non trivial app. Same thinking about using Django/Rails/Laravel vs bare bone routers like express, Sinatra or flask. Once you get past the simple landing page or hello world app all those things you call “bloat” come in super handy. Otherwise you end up with a custom undocumented untested unproven probably insecure rushed out implementation of what the “bloated” solution gives you. Same applies for Unpoly vs htmx. Unless you’re building just a hello world landing page, as I said.
      - lagt_t 3y ago
        Can you give one example of a feature that is fundamental for web development that is enabled by unpoly and not htmx?