4 ms·

You’ve got this all backwards. OS and hardware developers need software. Their devices are useless without it. It’s why the infamous Ballmer “developers, devel

by w4 3y ago

You’ve got this all backwards. OS and hardware developers need software. Their devices are useless without it. It’s why the infamous Ballmer “developers, developers, developers” clip exists. This is why OS developers and hardware manufacturers invest so heavily in developer tooling. They need to make it easy for developers to make software on the platform, because it is useless without that software. They need developers, and it is in their financial interest to create good tooling for them for this reason, hold conferences to encourage them to make software for their platforms, and so forth. They wouldn’t do any of this if it weren’t critical to their business model. How do you know this to be true? Because there are many real world examples that show what happens when you don't have developer support for your OS or device. I can make the greatest OS in the world, but if it doesn't have good software support, it will fail. This is a big part of why, for example, Linux on the desktop has always struggled. It's why BeOS failed. It's why Microsoft is struggling to compete with Sony in gaming right now. It's why the Windows Phone failed. And on and on. Apple is trying to flip the script here. They have a dominant platform, and now want to leverage it to extract greater value for themselves. That’s what businesses do - fair enough. Microsoft did the same thing in the 90s. But I believe that it’s a short sighted strategy which destroys long-term business value. If Apple sufficiently alienates developers they run a real risk of finding themselves in a difficult position where their devices lack critical software in a few years’ time, especially when they are launching an entirely new device (Vision Pro) that desperately needs good native software to succeed.

bberenberg 3y ago
I would encourage you to talk to iOS devs and see what their opinions are on tooling, docs, and API quality. My experience has been that they're very unhappy with all of the above.
- w4 3y ago
  True. And this is yet another data point to support my thesis: The state of the tooling and docs, along with Apple's increasingly aggressive approach towards developer incomes, all gives the impression of an arrogant institution which has lost its understanding of the symbiotic relationship it's in with its stakeholders. It is often at this point that future business and shareholder value is destroyed. I really hope they turn it around, because their devices are incredible. Their hardware team has been absolutely killing it for the past few years.
  - bberenberg 3y ago
    I 100% agree and that is why in my original comment I explicitly said that we should put pressure on Apple to make the product they sell to developers better.
    - w4 3y ago
      Fair enough. I think I misunderstood your point. That's another approach to take, I suppose.
tpmoney 3y ago
Worth noting at the time of “Developers, developers, developers” an MSDN subscription was about $2500 per year, or about $4.5k in today’s dollars, and I believe that was per seat. So developers footing the costs of the developer ecosystem isn’t exactly a new paradigm.
- w4 3y ago
  I didn't know that - appreciate the context. Ironically it drives home my point in a way I wasn't aware of. The “developers, developers, developers” moment happened near the apex of Microsoft's monopoly.
  - tpmoney 3y ago
    Even in non-monopoly situations, the world of free, high quality, developer eco-systems is relatively new. Console SDKs have always expensive even discounting that you had to buy/lease specialized hardware. For example, GameCube dev could be done with Metrowerks Code Warrior for $3.5k (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/metrowerks-provides-codewarrior-for-the-gamecube/1100-2678095/ https://www.gamespot.com/articles/metrowerks-provides-codewa...). And speaking of Code Warrior, in the classic MacOS days, Metrowerks Code Warrior was probably the IDE to be using. That alone was ~$500 retail in mid-90's dollars. And at that same time, Apple's own developer program was $500 or $3500 (https://web.archive.org/web/19990220171442/http://developer.apple.com/programs/chart.html https://web.archive.org/web/19990220171442/http://developer....) and even remained that expensive all the way to ~2010 when they dropped the cost to be more in line with the iPhone program (https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-drops-price-of-mac-developer-program-to-99/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-drops-price-of-mac-de...). Remember too it wasn't until 2006 that Java was released as FOSS software, (though it looks like they may have stopped charging for SE around 2000 https://www.tech-insider.org/java/research/1999/1207-b.html https://www.tech-insider.org/java/research/1999/1207-b.html) but before that, Sun also sold licenses and SDKs.

by w4 3y ago

bberenberg 3y ago

I would encourage you to talk to iOS devs and see what their opinions are on tooling, docs, and API quality. My experience has been that they're very unhappy with all of the above.

w4 3y ago
True. And this is yet another data point to support my thesis: The state of the tooling and docs, along with Apple's increasingly aggressive approach towards developer incomes, all gives the impression of an arrogant institution which has lost its understanding of the symbiotic relationship it's in with its stakeholders. It is often at this point that future business and shareholder value is destroyed. I really hope they turn it around, because their devices are incredible. Their hardware team has been absolutely killing it for the past few years.
- bberenberg 3y ago
  I 100% agree and that is why in my original comment I explicitly said that we should put pressure on Apple to make the product they sell to developers better.
  - w4 3y ago
    Fair enough. I think I misunderstood your point. That's another approach to take, I suppose.

tpmoney 3y ago

Worth noting at the time of “Developers, developers, developers” an MSDN subscription was about $2500 per year, or about $4.5k in today’s dollars, and I believe that was per seat. So developers footing the costs of the developer ecosystem isn’t exactly a new paradigm.

w4 3y ago
I didn't know that - appreciate the context. Ironically it drives home my point in a way I wasn't aware of. The “developers, developers, developers” moment happened near the apex of Microsoft's monopoly.
- tpmoney 3y ago
  Even in non-monopoly situations, the world of free, high quality, developer eco-systems is relatively new. Console SDKs have always expensive even discounting that you had to buy/lease specialized hardware. For example, GameCube dev could be done with Metrowerks Code Warrior for $3.5k (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/metrowerks-provides-codewarrior-for-the-gamecube/1100-2678095/ https://www.gamespot.com/articles/metrowerks-provides-codewa...). And speaking of Code Warrior, in the classic MacOS days, Metrowerks Code Warrior was probably the IDE to be using. That alone was ~$500 retail in mid-90's dollars. And at that same time, Apple's own developer program was $500 or $3500 (https://web.archive.org/web/19990220171442/http://developer.apple.com/programs/chart.html https://web.archive.org/web/19990220171442/http://developer....) and even remained that expensive all the way to ~2010 when they dropped the cost to be more in line with the iPhone program (https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-drops-price-of-mac-developer-program-to-99/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-drops-price-of-mac-de...). Remember too it wasn't until 2006 that Java was released as FOSS software, (though it looks like they may have stopped charging for SE around 2000 https://www.tech-insider.org/java/research/1999/1207-b.html https://www.tech-insider.org/java/research/1999/1207-b.html) but before that, Sun also sold licenses and SDKs.