3 ms·

I think we could bring the price of these down tenfold if they were sold like dishwashers and other appliances. Make a building code that has a universal plug

I think we could bring the price of these down tenfold if they were sold like dishwashers and other appliances. Make a building code that has a universal plug and play interface so they can be connected like a washing machine. The costs explode when you have to buy through installers. (Yes, there are lots of reasons they are not plug and play but let’s figure it out!)

rootsudo 3y ago
They pretty much are plug and play, you just need a 220V recpricial. They even come loaded w/ refigriant, so it is just cut copper, connect, done.
- bilsbie 3y ago
  Every time I’ve bought one there’s been three employees at my house for 8-10 hours.
  - rootsudo 3y ago
    I. guaranteee you they were useless. It helps to have another person to mount it if not on the ground, but you can do it yourself. I've installed over 10+ myself. At the same time, since people saying it's difficult and such - I should start selling this as a service :P
- GordonS 3y ago
  TFA said some homes need new piping, and Ia believe some need new radiators too?
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    Like many things: "it depends". If your current system can heat the house on the design day with 55°C/130°F water, you don't need to change piping or rads. (My house was in this situation as the original system was designed for gravity flow and so was massively oversized for a modern pumped system.) If your house has minimum sizing of baseboard radiators and the design day flow temperature is 82°C/180°F, then you need to update at least the emitters and maybe the piping.
mrspuratic 3y ago
In my country (Ireland) you more or less have to use professional installers for anything non-trivial if you want to get any sort of state grant/refund to cover the outrageous costs (with VAT piled on top). I did a retrofit, I can't imagine how complex it might be for a self-build. I admit dealing with old housing stock is a complicated problem. it seems they want you to partake in the bureaucracy to keep the cowboys out, which is not unreasonable given the problem at hand.
rasz 3y ago
There are pressurized lines running coolant gas between outdoor unit and indoor heads, they cant be sold/installed like washing machine. https://www.ac-heatingconnect.com/contractors/checking-charge-heat-pump-winter/ https://www.ac-heatingconnect.com/contractors/checking-charg...
- KMag 3y ago
  Why don't they run an ethylene/propylene glycol solution loop (with refrigerant to-water heat exchanger integral to the compressor unit) like industrial chillers? There's a tiny loss in efficiency due to the extra heat exchanger and higher pumping losses, but you get less leakage, less refrigerant, your lines are unpressurized, etc. A lot more of the installation process could probably also be done with low-skill labor. I imagine it would also be easier to retrofit such a system into houses with existing in-floor radiant heating and/or baseboard radiators.

rootsudo 3y ago

They pretty much are plug and play, you just need a 220V recpricial. They even come loaded w/ refigriant, so it is just cut copper, connect, done.

bilsbie 3y ago
Every time I’ve bought one there’s been three employees at my house for 8-10 hours.
- rootsudo 3y ago
  I. guaranteee you they were useless. It helps to have another person to mount it if not on the ground, but you can do it yourself. I've installed over 10+ myself. At the same time, since people saying it's difficult and such - I should start selling this as a service :P
GordonS 3y ago
TFA said some homes need new piping, and Ia believe some need new radiators too?
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Like many things: "it depends". If your current system can heat the house on the design day with 55°C/130°F water, you don't need to change piping or rads. (My house was in this situation as the original system was designed for gravity flow and so was massively oversized for a modern pumped system.) If your house has minimum sizing of baseboard radiators and the design day flow temperature is 82°C/180°F, then you need to update at least the emitters and maybe the piping.

mrspuratic 3y ago

In my country (Ireland) you more or less have to use professional installers for anything non-trivial if you want to get any sort of state grant/refund to cover the outrageous costs (with VAT piled on top). I did a retrofit, I can't imagine how complex it might be for a self-build. I admit dealing with old housing stock is a complicated problem. it seems they want you to partake in the bureaucracy to keep the cowboys out, which is not unreasonable given the problem at hand.

rasz 3y ago

There are pressurized lines running coolant gas between outdoor unit and indoor heads, they cant be sold/installed like washing machine. https://www.ac-heatingconnect.com/contractors/checking-charge-heat-pump-winter/ https://www.ac-heatingconnect.com/contractors/checking-charg...

KMag 3y ago
Why don't they run an ethylene/propylene glycol solution loop (with refrigerant to-water heat exchanger integral to the compressor unit) like industrial chillers? There's a tiny loss in efficiency due to the extra heat exchanger and higher pumping losses, but you get less leakage, less refrigerant, your lines are unpressurized, etc. A lot more of the installation process could probably also be done with low-skill labor. I imagine it would also be easier to retrofit such a system into houses with existing in-floor radiant heating and/or baseboard radiators.