3 ms·

As a married dude - I'll offer some advice to other engineers that may be having trouble due to political issues of potential mates. Since the topic implies hu

by czbond 3y ago

As a married dude - I'll offer some advice to other engineers that may be having trouble due to political issues of potential mates. Since the topic implies human coupling is down because of political ideologies... the advice is sort of like in business "put yourself where the majority of the business is" - If you live in a place where the majority opinion is yours, you're all set. - If not, move to where they are. If you're conservative, living in Portland... it's going to be hard. If you're liberal living in Alabama, you may have to move to the east or west coasts. Sure you can dig and find someone in your locale, but go where the fishing is plenty.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> If you're conservative, living in Portland... it's going to be hard. If you're liberal living in Florida, you may have to move to the east or west coasts Or challenge your views! You don’t need to switch parties. But more often than not, the difference is one of prioritising different issues more than disagreeing on hot-button ones. Or, where there is disagreement, disagreeing on aspects versus the conventional packaging of the issue.
- zozbot234 3y ago
  The conventional phrasing for this is "hide your power level". If you're good at playing Ideological Turing Test games you're all set no matter what your starting ideology is, and you might find that you can also change others' views in your direction.
  - czbond 3y ago
    It depends on how you want to spend your time, right? Fully agree you can change people, but is that worth spending your time? Do you have other goals in life? I recall a moving story to me on ... "This American Life" on NPR, which had a story about the most moving way for people to change their minds on polarizing issues, is to spend lots of time talking & hanging out with people who lived personally with whatever is the opposing views in a civil manner. The example at the time was based on groups not accepting the gay lifestyle spending time with those who were. But just because you try, doesn't mean the other person is ready to accept. So like in chaos theory, you have to plan on failure..... hope for success.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > agree you can change people, but is that worth spending your time? No. To change your own mind? Absolutely.
      - czbond 3y ago
        Great point (I know in HN context, I shouldn't have replied, but you're right)
    - 082349872349872 3y ago
      See also Bob Altemeyer on quantitatively tested ways of reducing "Authoritarian Follower" tendencies. (personally, I found voting with my feet a much more effective use of my time than attempting anything political in my home country)
      - heavyset_go 3y ago
        > See also Bob Altemeyer on quantitatively tested ways of reducing "Authoritarian Follower" tendencies. Got more info on this?
        082349872349872 3y ago
        The Authoritarians Ch.7 pp 239-245 "Long-term Reductions in Authoritarianism: More Practical Solutions" https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ishbg1AE3snak_yOTLK0hPsvy_4l6ew1/view?pli=1 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ishbg1AE3snak_yOTLK0hPsvy_4... > It’s not an argument you can win, especially if you win. (Couples who live together learn this about certain arguments.) > Instead, you’ll be amazed how bonding it is when four people wrestle an old washing machine out of the brown water that none of them could have managed alone. This is called a superordinate goal, and social psychologists can cite many studies that show it really does open doors between groups. Being an academic, he should have the relevant literature cites somewhere if you prefer primary sources.
        3y ago
- Eddy_Viscosity2 3y ago
  I tried challenging my views and the result completely vindicated my position as be both rationally and morally correct.
- mlrtime 3y ago
  This is assuming they aren't challenging them already. Wise people are constantly challenging their views. This doesn't negate's OPs advice at all. The difference when choosing a long term mate and starting a family makes the stakes higher. Ideology will dictate customs, schooling, etc.. I do respect married folks who can vote down political lines and stay happily married. These people have a lot to learn from.
bee_rider 3y ago
Although if you want to live in a densely populated area, you will probably want to be liberal (as distinct from leftist) at least.
082349872349872 3y ago
As another married dude — there are many worse fates than to be a young man in a world full of hippie chicks. (in the old days achieving this outcome used to require a high tolerance to patchouli and veggie burritos)
aliasxneo 3y ago
As a married dude who is marginally conservative living in the outer Portland area, I think it depends on what your goals are. I enjoy relationships where I'm not talking in an echo chamber. There are, of course, people who refuse to engage with me based on a presupposition of my ideology (you're an oppressive "conservative"), but I would say it's a minority in my experience. In a healthy relationship, where we're engaging in activities together, sharing meals, and being present in difficult times, I've found that politically charged discussions are much more fruitful as barriers go down. We can then talk about an issue with an understanding that it doesn't define our relationship. Over time, a mutual benefit is obtained, where we both end up with a stronger understanding of certain ideologies and can engage in a more healthy manner with others. Anyways, just a counter-point, and I understand it doesn't fit everyone.
hackeraccount 3y ago
Who'd want to date a woman they couldn't disagree with politically? If nothing else it'd be really boring. I remember one of the most comforting parts about getting married to wife was planning the wedding. We didn't agree on some things but we could work together in a way that positive for both of us. Really though out of all the things that create friction in a relationship if it seems like it's politics then I would tend to suspect that politics is an overlay for something else because - and I say this as someone who has fairly strong political beliefs - what a stupid thing to lose (or not get at all) a good relationship over.

by czbond 3y ago

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> If you're conservative, living in Portland... it's going to be hard. If you're liberal living in Florida, you may have to move to the east or west coasts Or challenge your views! You don’t need to switch parties. But more often than not, the difference is one of prioritising different issues more than disagreeing on hot-button ones. Or, where there is disagreement, disagreeing on aspects versus the conventional packaging of the issue.

zozbot234 3y ago
The conventional phrasing for this is "hide your power level". If you're good at playing Ideological Turing Test games you're all set no matter what your starting ideology is, and you might find that you can also change others' views in your direction.
- czbond 3y ago
  It depends on how you want to spend your time, right? Fully agree you can change people, but is that worth spending your time? Do you have other goals in life? I recall a moving story to me on ... "This American Life" on NPR, which had a story about the most moving way for people to change their minds on polarizing issues, is to spend lots of time talking & hanging out with people who lived personally with whatever is the opposing views in a civil manner. The example at the time was based on groups not accepting the gay lifestyle spending time with those who were. But just because you try, doesn't mean the other person is ready to accept. So like in chaos theory, you have to plan on failure..... hope for success.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > agree you can change people, but is that worth spending your time? No. To change your own mind? Absolutely.
    - czbond 3y ago
      Great point (I know in HN context, I shouldn't have replied, but you're right)
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    See also Bob Altemeyer on quantitatively tested ways of reducing "Authoritarian Follower" tendencies. (personally, I found voting with my feet a much more effective use of my time than attempting anything political in my home country)
    - heavyset_go 3y ago
      > See also Bob Altemeyer on quantitatively tested ways of reducing "Authoritarian Follower" tendencies. Got more info on this?
      - 082349872349872 3y ago
        The Authoritarians Ch.7 pp 239-245 "Long-term Reductions in Authoritarianism: More Practical Solutions" https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ishbg1AE3snak_yOTLK0hPsvy_4l6ew1/view?pli=1 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ishbg1AE3snak_yOTLK0hPsvy_4... > It’s not an argument you can win, especially if you win. (Couples who live together learn this about certain arguments.) > Instead, you’ll be amazed how bonding it is when four people wrestle an old washing machine out of the brown water that none of them could have managed alone. This is called a superordinate goal, and social psychologists can cite many studies that show it really does open doors between groups. Being an academic, he should have the relevant literature cites somewhere if you prefer primary sources.
        3y ago
Eddy_Viscosity2 3y ago
I tried challenging my views and the result completely vindicated my position as be both rationally and morally correct.
mlrtime 3y ago
This is assuming they aren't challenging them already. Wise people are constantly challenging their views. This doesn't negate's OPs advice at all. The difference when choosing a long term mate and starting a family makes the stakes higher. Ideology will dictate customs, schooling, etc.. I do respect married folks who can vote down political lines and stay happily married. These people have a lot to learn from.

bee_rider 3y ago

Although if you want to live in a densely populated area, you will probably want to be liberal (as distinct from leftist) at least.

082349872349872 3y ago

As another married dude — there are many worse fates than to be a young man in a world full of hippie chicks. (in the old days achieving this outcome used to require a high tolerance to patchouli and veggie burritos)

aliasxneo 3y ago

As a married dude who is marginally conservative living in the outer Portland area, I think it depends on what your goals are. I enjoy relationships where I'm not talking in an echo chamber. There are, of course, people who refuse to engage with me based on a presupposition of my ideology (you're an oppressive "conservative"), but I would say it's a minority in my experience. In a healthy relationship, where we're engaging in activities together, sharing meals, and being present in difficult times, I've found that politically charged discussions are much more fruitful as barriers go down. We can then talk about an issue with an understanding that it doesn't define our relationship. Over time, a mutual benefit is obtained, where we both end up with a stronger understanding of certain ideologies and can engage in a more healthy manner with others. Anyways, just a counter-point, and I understand it doesn't fit everyone.

hackeraccount 3y ago

Who'd want to date a woman they couldn't disagree with politically? If nothing else it'd be really boring. I remember one of the most comforting parts about getting married to wife was planning the wedding. We didn't agree on some things but we could work together in a way that positive for both of us. Really though out of all the things that create friction in a relationship if it seems like it's politics then I would tend to suspect that politics is an overlay for something else because - and I say this as someone who has fairly strong political beliefs - what a stupid thing to lose (or not get at all) a good relationship over.