4 ms·

> Patriarchy and white supremacy are inextricably intertwined. I don't want to get into the topic deeply - but this quote displays to me you have not traveled

by czbond 3y ago

> Patriarchy and white supremacy are inextricably intertwined. I don't want to get into the topic deeply - but this quote displays to me you have not traveled much outside of the U.S. China, Japan, Central America, portions of the Middle East, Northern Africa cultures as a start display Patriarchy heavily.... without the "lets link it to white people" effects. It is fun for some people to dump on the U.S., but once one actually deeply looks at other cultures, you realize Patriarchy is a human issue - Not a U.S. issue I employ all "U.S. bashers" to travel more. You'll come back humbled, and a bit more thankful for where the U.S. is, even if we are not perfect

jmyeet 3y ago
More generally there's an in group and an out group. In Europe and the Americas (including South and Central America) it's people who can largely be described as "white". Yes this applies to Latino and Hispanic countries (eg Brazil [1]). As for South Korea, "whiteness" still plays a big role eg "looking white" [2]. Japan is essentially a monoculture. You're not Japanese if you're not ethnically japanese. How is that not "white supremacy" in a different form? China is similar with the supremacy of the Han Chinese [3]. The Middle East very much has racial supremacy. Look at how all the imported workers aret reated from the Phillipines and India. Or the treatment of the Kurds. In Saudi Arabia, Arabs sit at the top. In Iran, it's ethnic Persians. And this is before we even get started on Israel and Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardic Jews, Mizrahi Jews, Ethiopian Jews and of course ethnic Arabs (Palestinians including Israeli Arabs). As one example from Africa, look at Kenya [4]. [1]: https://www.npr.org/2013/09/19/224152635/skin-color-still-plays-big-role-in-ethnically-diverse-brazil https://www.npr.org/2013/09/19/224152635/skin-color-still-pl... [2]: https://humsci.stanford.edu/feature/stanford-scholar-traces-roots-south-koreas-cosmetic-surgery-surge https://humsci.stanford.edu/feature/stanford-scholar-traces-... [3]: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2009/07/on-uighurs-han-and-general-racial-attitudes-in-china/21137/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2009/07/on-ui... [4]: https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/15/middleeast/tunisia-president-racism-africa-mime-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/15/middleeast/tunisia-president-...
- herlitzj 3y ago
  You also don't need to go back very far in history to see how white patriarchal empires dominated/shaped most (all?) of these regions and countries for centuries.
  - czbond 3y ago
    I would submit, that white patriarchal opinion is due to the time period you are sampling coupled with,in this case, mobility by boat to allow a more global reach. There were Mongols, Kush / Egyptian in Africa, Inca, Navajo in North America, etc etc - pulling from large and small groups. Even within a group, the India Caste system did the same within a population
- czbond 3y ago
  I do not disagree with you... but calling the issue "white supremacy" is misleading. The examples you mention are bias, bigotry, and racism applied to each culture. Chinese, Japanese, or Hispanic, or Middle Easterners would never consider themselves "white". It is a term, where people want to lump U.S. whites together in the U.S. wholly as bad, and suggest they're evil in the U.S. and now globally. People in the U.S. just happen to be historically white, just like Chinese just happen to be historically of Chinese descent, etc.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > there's an in group and an out group Which means “patriarchy and white supremacy” are not “inextricably intertwined.” Exhibit A for this not being race determined: how we keep redefining “whiteness” in America based on whoever is rich. To the point, today, that White + Asian is a common category. (Or how we cleave Hispanic from non-Hispanic Whites.) Patriarchy is intertwined with wealth and power, but in a demonstrably extricable way. Conflating it with racism is a terrific way to halt any progress towards dismantling it, and for good reason.
- Adverblessly 3y ago
  > And this is before we even get started on Israel and Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardic Jews, Mizrahi Jews, Ethiopian Jews and of course ethnic Arabs (Palestinians including Israeli Arabs). Ashkenazi Jews (the in group) tend to vote more liberal than Sephardic/Mizrahi Jews. Israeli Arabs parties, while associated with the left due to their position on Palestine, are extremely conservative (e.g. pushing for conversion therapy).

by czbond 3y ago

jmyeet 3y ago

More generally there's an in group and an out group. In Europe and the Americas (including South and Central America) it's people who can largely be described as "white". Yes this applies to Latino and Hispanic countries (eg Brazil [1]). As for South Korea, "whiteness" still plays a big role eg "looking white" [2]. Japan is essentially a monoculture. You're not Japanese if you're not ethnically japanese. How is that not "white supremacy" in a different form? China is similar with the supremacy of the Han Chinese [3]. The Middle East very much has racial supremacy. Look at how all the imported workers aret reated from the Phillipines and India. Or the treatment of the Kurds. In Saudi Arabia, Arabs sit at the top. In Iran, it's ethnic Persians. And this is before we even get started on Israel and Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardic Jews, Mizrahi Jews, Ethiopian Jews and of course ethnic Arabs (Palestinians including Israeli Arabs). As one example from Africa, look at Kenya [4]. [1]: https://www.npr.org/2013/09/19/224152635/skin-color-still-plays-big-role-in-ethnically-diverse-brazil https://www.npr.org/2013/09/19/224152635/skin-color-still-pl... [2]: https://humsci.stanford.edu/feature/stanford-scholar-traces-roots-south-koreas-cosmetic-surgery-surge https://humsci.stanford.edu/feature/stanford-scholar-traces-... [3]: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2009/07/on-uighurs-han-and-general-racial-attitudes-in-china/21137/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2009/07/on-ui... [4]: https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/15/middleeast/tunisia-president-racism-africa-mime-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/15/middleeast/tunisia-president-...

herlitzj 3y ago
You also don't need to go back very far in history to see how white patriarchal empires dominated/shaped most (all?) of these regions and countries for centuries.
- czbond 3y ago
  I would submit, that white patriarchal opinion is due to the time period you are sampling coupled with,in this case, mobility by boat to allow a more global reach. There were Mongols, Kush / Egyptian in Africa, Inca, Navajo in North America, etc etc - pulling from large and small groups. Even within a group, the India Caste system did the same within a population
czbond 3y ago
I do not disagree with you... but calling the issue "white supremacy" is misleading. The examples you mention are bias, bigotry, and racism applied to each culture. Chinese, Japanese, or Hispanic, or Middle Easterners would never consider themselves "white". It is a term, where people want to lump U.S. whites together in the U.S. wholly as bad, and suggest they're evil in the U.S. and now globally. People in the U.S. just happen to be historically white, just like Chinese just happen to be historically of Chinese descent, etc.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> there's an in group and an out group Which means “patriarchy and white supremacy” are not “inextricably intertwined.” Exhibit A for this not being race determined: how we keep redefining “whiteness” in America based on whoever is rich. To the point, today, that White + Asian is a common category. (Or how we cleave Hispanic from non-Hispanic Whites.) Patriarchy is intertwined with wealth and power, but in a demonstrably extricable way. Conflating it with racism is a terrific way to halt any progress towards dismantling it, and for good reason.
Adverblessly 3y ago
> And this is before we even get started on Israel and Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardic Jews, Mizrahi Jews, Ethiopian Jews and of course ethnic Arabs (Palestinians including Israeli Arabs). Ashkenazi Jews (the in group) tend to vote more liberal than Sephardic/Mizrahi Jews. Israeli Arabs parties, while associated with the left due to their position on Palestine, are extremely conservative (e.g. pushing for conversion therapy).