3 ms·

Look at the issues discussed: gender roles, race/immigration. Conservative means traditional gender roles, immigration as a negative/threat. Liberal means the o

Look at the issues discussed: gender roles, race/immigration. Conservative means traditional gender roles, immigration as a negative/threat. Liberal means the opposite. For me at least that's comprehensible and unambiguous outside the US as well

zozbot234 3y ago
These days traditional gender roles are assumed to be some inescapable part of one's identity, that can only be altered by comparatively extreme means such as medical treatment. Sure, there are some "non-binary" folks who see through that whole worldview but they are a tiny minority. And they're only allowed that if they're OK with being stamped with some weird "third gender" role label in turn.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > traditional gender roles are assumed to be some inescapable part of one's identity, that can only be altered by comparatively extreme means such as medical treatment I wouldn’t consider anyone who thinks you can only change your gender with surgery a liberal.
  - zozbot234 3y ago
    Non-surgical treatment is still treatment, and often viewed as some sort of gateway step towards such things as surgery. Even something as insubstantial as "social transition" is still thoroughly medicalized as a matter of basic worldview.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > Even something as insubstantial as "social transition" is still inherently medicalized as a matter of basic worldview This redefines medicine to include literally all human activity, from sartorial preferences to how one crosses their legs. So sure, if we render this term meaningless we can apply it.
      - zozbot234 3y ago
        It's not us redefining "sartorial preferences or how one crosses their legs" as such matters, but those who push the whole worldview of "gender identity" as something relevant to these things and otherwise unchangeable. Toy aisles in retail stores are supposed to be non-gendered, but kids are being told in school that if they like "gender discordant" toys this means that their "inborn gender" is not the one they think it is and they must seek proper "reassignment".
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > kids are being told in school that if they like "gender discordant" toys this means that their "inborn gender" is not the one they think it is and they must seek proper "reassignment" Source? For what it’s worth, I’d call that hard leftist. Not liberal. In the same way I’d call someone insisting on traditional gender labels right wing, not merely conservative. (The latter applying that labelling preference to one’s own children, only.) And returning to the proximate point, none of that is medicine.
asdfgnionio 3y ago
Certainly the dictionary definition of "conservative" implies an adherence to tradition, but that doesn't mean what big-C Conservatives believe is actually traditional. "Traditional gender roles" are often newer people think and certainly aren't consistent across the entire world.

zozbot234 3y ago

These days traditional gender roles are assumed to be some inescapable part of one's identity, that can only be altered by comparatively extreme means such as medical treatment. Sure, there are some "non-binary" folks who see through that whole worldview but they are a tiny minority. And they're only allowed that if they're OK with being stamped with some weird "third gender" role label in turn.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> traditional gender roles are assumed to be some inescapable part of one's identity, that can only be altered by comparatively extreme means such as medical treatment I wouldn’t consider anyone who thinks you can only change your gender with surgery a liberal.
- zozbot234 3y ago
  Non-surgical treatment is still treatment, and often viewed as some sort of gateway step towards such things as surgery. Even something as insubstantial as "social transition" is still thoroughly medicalized as a matter of basic worldview.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Even something as insubstantial as "social transition" is still inherently medicalized as a matter of basic worldview This redefines medicine to include literally all human activity, from sartorial preferences to how one crosses their legs. So sure, if we render this term meaningless we can apply it.
    - zozbot234 3y ago
      It's not us redefining "sartorial preferences or how one crosses their legs" as such matters, but those who push the whole worldview of "gender identity" as something relevant to these things and otherwise unchangeable. Toy aisles in retail stores are supposed to be non-gendered, but kids are being told in school that if they like "gender discordant" toys this means that their "inborn gender" is not the one they think it is and they must seek proper "reassignment".
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > kids are being told in school that if they like "gender discordant" toys this means that their "inborn gender" is not the one they think it is and they must seek proper "reassignment" Source? For what it’s worth, I’d call that hard leftist. Not liberal. In the same way I’d call someone insisting on traditional gender labels right wing, not merely conservative. (The latter applying that labelling preference to one’s own children, only.) And returning to the proximate point, none of that is medicine.

asdfgnionio 3y ago

Certainly the dictionary definition of "conservative" implies an adherence to tradition, but that doesn't mean what big-C Conservatives believe is actually traditional. "Traditional gender roles" are often newer people think and certainly aren't consistent across the entire world.