7 ms·

The Japanese philosophy for a no-waste world

45 points by sourabh03agr 3y ago

throw0101d 3y ago
See also lots of single-use plastic: * https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220823-quitting-single-use-plastic-in-japan https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220823-quitting-single-...
- mc32 3y ago
  Yeah. It’s a dichotomy. On the one hand there is more full use of foodstuffs but single use plastic is a big waste as well as housing where they prefer to demo houses and buildings rather than renovate them. Building lifespan in Japan is btwn 30 and 40 years.
  - henearkr 3y ago
    Yes and discarded fish heads is not really what is killing the biodiversity right now.
  - throw0101d 3y ago
    > […] as well as housing where they prefer to demo houses and buildings rather than renovate them. In past decades earthquake building codes evolved a lot, and who would want to live a structure that probably had 'less resilient' capabilities (assuming an insurance company would even give you coverage for older construction).
totetsu 3y ago
Also see this town https://www.core77.com/posts/125980/This-Japanese-Town-Sorts-Their-Waste-Into-These-45-Categories#:~:text=In%202003%2C%20the%20Japanese%20municipality,in%20America%2C%20single%20digits https://www.core77.com/posts/125980/This-Japanese-Town-Sorts....)
- ponderings 3y ago
  That is the most convincing building I've ever seen.
- alanbernstein 3y ago
  That's interesting, but > 12. Unrecyclable garbage that can only be landfilled: Seashells, nail polish, chemical hand warmers, ... Surely there is a better place for seashells than a landfill?
  - lewispollard 3y ago
    In Dwarf Fortress it's essential to get a repeating work order for shell crafts set up early to prevent shells taking up all the stockpile space, and give you some extra cash when the trading caravan rolls around.
liveoneggs 3y ago
https://everyinchoftheworld.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/img_0821-001.jpg https://everyinchoftheworld.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/img_...
asutekku 3y ago
I know these Japan stories for Americans might be awe-inspiring, but man if there isn't crap loads of waste from all the products they sell here. Yesterday during my grocery shopping each individual glass container product got its own separate paper bag, meat was given a plastic bag even thought it was already wrapped in plastic and my juices got another plastic bag. Even the wines I got were given this plastic wrap, just not to hit each other. I get that compared to the US the recycling here might be better (and yeah, I do need to separate my trash), but this is pure "oh so mysterious and oriental Japan so great" article. What help is recycling for if you're producing insane amounts of unnecessary waste.
- MiiMe19 3y ago
  [flagged]
- rizpanjwani 3y ago
  Yep lived in Japan 3 years - their use of over-packaging and single use plastics is insane.
- kleene_op 3y ago
  I still have the mental image of that SINGLE banana wrapped in plastic in a random 7-11 I went to during my trip to Japan a few months ago. Hard to keep a straight face reading that headline with that image burned in my mind.
  - gomox 3y ago
    Individually shrink-wrapped fruit is also a thing in the US (and in every airport in the world, probably). But I haven't seen these [0] in the US. [0] https://ibeantravelling.files.wordpress.com/2020/11/6e290558-2c89-4aea-9371-2fc0937e79b9_1_105_c.jpeg https://ibeantravelling.files.wordpress.com/2020/11/6e290558...
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I have as Christmas gift items but not sure I ever have for day to day. There's also a huge amount of plastic kitsch in Japan. We probably are seeing more plastic-wrapped fruits and vegetables in the US. Part of it is probably there a certain amount of pressure to make everything barcoded for quicker checkout--especially at self-checkouts.
smcl 3y ago
One of the things that stood out to me last time I visited Japan was how much packaging everything has, and how few bins there are around. It is cool that there's one community that values not letting things to go waste and the story itself is very cute. But "the Japanese philosophy" regarding waste to me seemed to be: produce a lot of it, and burn it. Europe may not be much better in producing, consuming, recycling or otherwise handling waste (and could easily be worse? I don't know how to measure this) but there's a tendency in "the west" to mysticise Japan and I don't know if it's helpful to do so in general, but particularly in this case.
- totetsu 3y ago
  Yes it drive me crazy.
  - imp0cat 3y ago
    They actually started installing public trash bins in Osaka recently, the pedal-operated kind. See Rion Ishida's video here: https://youtu.be/Bg2OQT-g0JA?t=2129 https://youtu.be/Bg2OQT-g0JA?t=2129
- tkgally 3y ago
  > how few bins there are around Rubbish bins were common in railway stations and other public places until the sarin terrorist attacks on the Tokyo subway in 1995, after which most were removed for security reasons. Trashcans are a bit more common now than they were in the first few years after those attacks, but they can indeed still be hard to find. Just a couple of days ago, I was surprised to spot a garbage can on the sidewalk on Omotesando. I had a used facemask in my pocket, so I dropped it in.
  - smcl 3y ago
    I think the lack of bins in UK stations is for a similar reason (IRA bombings during the Troubles).
    - 3y ago
m-i-l 3y ago
This is all very good, but I don't think it is specific to Japan - I'd hazard a guess that most old world cultures have a history of eliminating food waste dating back to the days when existence was much more precarious thanks to war, pestilence and famine. Thinking of Scotland for example, there's haggis (heart, liver, lungs, and originally stomach), black pudding (blood), plus all those "recipes" for leftovers like stovies and rumbledethumps. And in Europe I've seen things on menus like pigs trotters, pigs ears and so on.
peruvian 3y ago
[flagged]
- srackey 3y ago
  I mean, comparing NYC to Tokyo, yeah it’s better. “Less plastic waste” definitely isn’t the reason though.
sourabh03agr 3y ago
Guess Indian is far better than US and Japan when it comes to producing plastic waste. A lot of Indian states have plastic bans, drastically reducing the amount of plastic wasted via packaging or grocery shopping
- subtra3t 3y ago
  In a lot of metropolitan cities enforcement of such bans is often dismal, with police officers usually turning a blind eye to offendors.
locopati 3y ago
Visit a Japanese coastline to see how no-waste they are (so much garbage washed up).
- Ferret7446 3y ago
  Is that garbage from Japan or, say, China? When a cargo ship carrying "recyclables" from the US to China loses things into the ocean near Japan, does it not wash up on Japan's shores?
fuzzythinker 3y ago
Everyone mention single use plastic and too many wraps. For those who don't live there, you may not know about gifting too. Everyone give gifts. I don't have the numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if they give gifts 5-10x the rest of the world. Which are wrapped, boxed, with more wrappings and plastics inside. I think one way to reduce this may be for companies to start making reusable fancy gift boxes and have celebrities in commercials and posters show that it's the new cool thing to do.

45 points by sourabh03agr 3y ago

See also lots of single-use plastic: * https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220823-quitting-single-use-plastic-in-japan https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220823-quitting-single-...

mc32 3y ago
Yeah. It’s a dichotomy. On the one hand there is more full use of foodstuffs but single use plastic is a big waste as well as housing where they prefer to demo houses and buildings rather than renovate them. Building lifespan in Japan is btwn 30 and 40 years.
- henearkr 3y ago
  Yes and discarded fish heads is not really what is killing the biodiversity right now.
- throw0101d 3y ago
  > […] as well as housing where they prefer to demo houses and buildings rather than renovate them. In past decades earthquake building codes evolved a lot, and who would want to live a structure that probably had 'less resilient' capabilities (assuming an insurance company would even give you coverage for older construction).

totetsu 3y ago

Also see this town https://www.core77.com/posts/125980/This-Japanese-Town-Sorts-Their-Waste-Into-These-45-Categories#:~:text=In%202003%2C%20the%20Japanese%20municipality,in%20America%2C%20single%20digits https://www.core77.com/posts/125980/This-Japanese-Town-Sorts....)

ponderings 3y ago
That is the most convincing building I've ever seen.
alanbernstein 3y ago
That's interesting, but > 12. Unrecyclable garbage that can only be landfilled: Seashells, nail polish, chemical hand warmers, ... Surely there is a better place for seashells than a landfill?
- lewispollard 3y ago
  In Dwarf Fortress it's essential to get a repeating work order for shell crafts set up early to prevent shells taking up all the stockpile space, and give you some extra cash when the trading caravan rolls around.

liveoneggs 3y ago

https://everyinchoftheworld.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/img_0821-001.jpg https://everyinchoftheworld.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/img_...

asutekku 3y ago

I know these Japan stories for Americans might be awe-inspiring, but man if there isn't crap loads of waste from all the products they sell here. Yesterday during my grocery shopping each individual glass container product got its own separate paper bag, meat was given a plastic bag even thought it was already wrapped in plastic and my juices got another plastic bag. Even the wines I got were given this plastic wrap, just not to hit each other. I get that compared to the US the recycling here might be better (and yeah, I do need to separate my trash), but this is pure "oh so mysterious and oriental Japan so great" article. What help is recycling for if you're producing insane amounts of unnecessary waste.

MiiMe19 3y ago
[flagged]
rizpanjwani 3y ago
Yep lived in Japan 3 years - their use of over-packaging and single use plastics is insane.
kleene_op 3y ago
I still have the mental image of that SINGLE banana wrapped in plastic in a random 7-11 I went to during my trip to Japan a few months ago. Hard to keep a straight face reading that headline with that image burned in my mind.
- gomox 3y ago
  Individually shrink-wrapped fruit is also a thing in the US (and in every airport in the world, probably). But I haven't seen these [0] in the US. [0] https://ibeantravelling.files.wordpress.com/2020/11/6e290558-2c89-4aea-9371-2fc0937e79b9_1_105_c.jpeg https://ibeantravelling.files.wordpress.com/2020/11/6e290558...
  - ghaff 3y ago
    I have as Christmas gift items but not sure I ever have for day to day. There's also a huge amount of plastic kitsch in Japan. We probably are seeing more plastic-wrapped fruits and vegetables in the US. Part of it is probably there a certain amount of pressure to make everything barcoded for quicker checkout--especially at self-checkouts.

smcl 3y ago

One of the things that stood out to me last time I visited Japan was how much packaging everything has, and how few bins there are around. It is cool that there's one community that values not letting things to go waste and the story itself is very cute. But "the Japanese philosophy" regarding waste to me seemed to be: produce a lot of it, and burn it. Europe may not be much better in producing, consuming, recycling or otherwise handling waste (and could easily be worse? I don't know how to measure this) but there's a tendency in "the west" to mysticise Japan and I don't know if it's helpful to do so in general, but particularly in this case.

totetsu 3y ago
Yes it drive me crazy.
- imp0cat 3y ago
  They actually started installing public trash bins in Osaka recently, the pedal-operated kind. See Rion Ishida's video here: https://youtu.be/Bg2OQT-g0JA?t=2129 https://youtu.be/Bg2OQT-g0JA?t=2129
tkgally 3y ago
> how few bins there are around Rubbish bins were common in railway stations and other public places until the sarin terrorist attacks on the Tokyo subway in 1995, after which most were removed for security reasons. Trashcans are a bit more common now than they were in the first few years after those attacks, but they can indeed still be hard to find. Just a couple of days ago, I was surprised to spot a garbage can on the sidewalk on Omotesando. I had a used facemask in my pocket, so I dropped it in.
- smcl 3y ago
  I think the lack of bins in UK stations is for a similar reason (IRA bombings during the Troubles).
  - 3y ago

m-i-l 3y ago

This is all very good, but I don't think it is specific to Japan - I'd hazard a guess that most old world cultures have a history of eliminating food waste dating back to the days when existence was much more precarious thanks to war, pestilence and famine. Thinking of Scotland for example, there's haggis (heart, liver, lungs, and originally stomach), black pudding (blood), plus all those "recipes" for leftovers like stovies and rumbledethumps. And in Europe I've seen things on menus like pigs trotters, pigs ears and so on.

peruvian 3y ago

[flagged]

srackey 3y ago
I mean, comparing NYC to Tokyo, yeah it’s better. “Less plastic waste” definitely isn’t the reason though.

sourabh03agr 3y ago

Guess Indian is far better than US and Japan when it comes to producing plastic waste. A lot of Indian states have plastic bans, drastically reducing the amount of plastic wasted via packaging or grocery shopping

subtra3t 3y ago
In a lot of metropolitan cities enforcement of such bans is often dismal, with police officers usually turning a blind eye to offendors.

locopati 3y ago

Visit a Japanese coastline to see how no-waste they are (so much garbage washed up).

Ferret7446 3y ago
Is that garbage from Japan or, say, China? When a cargo ship carrying "recyclables" from the US to China loses things into the ocean near Japan, does it not wash up on Japan's shores?

fuzzythinker 3y ago

Everyone mention single use plastic and too many wraps. For those who don't live there, you may not know about gifting too. Everyone give gifts. I don't have the numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if they give gifts 5-10x the rest of the world. Which are wrapped, boxed, with more wrappings and plastics inside. I think one way to reduce this may be for companies to start making reusable fancy gift boxes and have celebrities in commercials and posters show that it's the new cool thing to do.