6 ms·

Finally firefox + extensions will be able to reach ios. I find it a bit puzzling and amusing how so many people in the other threads are acting like this is th

by nolok 3y ago

Finally firefox + extensions will be able to reach ios. I find it a bit puzzling and amusing how so many people in the other threads are acting like this is the end of safety on apple and yada yada, while 1 - you're free to stay well within the walled garden if you so desire, stepping out is a personal choice (but now is a choice for the user, instead of banning him from doing something apple doesn't like), 2 - we have the example of android to know apps won't each flock to their own little store, 3 - the whole pretense of "the curating of the store allows them to ensure high quality safety" is frankly not in line with reality, the app store being full of crap and spam while blocking updates to apps that apple don't like (spotify for example). I'm flabbergasted at "tech oriented users" ability to forget what they know when it come to certain brands they like.

jonbell 3y ago
1) More spam on Android by far 2) Spotify not blocked There’s a bit of religion happening in both directions. iOS has, objectively, fewer problems than Android in these regards and part of that are the policies.
- repox 3y ago
  > There’s a bit of religion happening in both directions. iOS has, objectively, fewer problems than Android in these regards and part of that are the policies. When you say "objectively" I assume that this is something that has been measured and that there are reliable sources for this statement?
  - ruszki 3y ago
    I would be really surprised. Anytime when I’ve searched for a feature (like DLNA sharing), and not for a specific app, I’ve got only very shitty spam apps in both stores. Even when I search for specific app, like GTA, the results deteriorate very quickly, in both stores.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- poisonborz 3y ago
  iOS has a fraction of the userbase and developer activity of Android globally, which affects also the US market, from where it might seem dominant.
  - rvz 3y ago
    No wonder that explains the amount of ransomware garbage on Android devices out there: [0] and it is more prevalent on Android than iOS. [1] [0] https://www.cloudsek.com/threatintelligence/copy-of-malware-intelligence-analysis-of-daam-android-malware https://www.cloudsek.com/threatintelligence/copy-of-malware-... [1] https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2023/09/22/apps-attack-risk https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2023/09/22/apps-attack-risk
- seszett 3y ago
  What do you mean by "spam on Android" though? I don't get spam on my phone (well, SMS spam sometimes but that has nothing to do with the OS) and nobody I know does. Also, I keep hearing on HN that iOS doesn't split notifications into channels and you can't block just the ad notifications. Unlike on Android where I block the ads for Uber Eats, the only application that wants to spam me (but doesn't, since I can just disable ads).
  - khazhoux 3y ago
    App store spam
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - mort96 3y ago
      I think this would be a better argument if Apple wasn't so careless with what they accept on the App Store. There are scam apps, apps which try to trick users into accepting subscriptions, tonnes and tonnes of "casino for children" games, games which clearly try to trick children into spending their parents' money, etc.
    - d3w4s9 3y ago
      If you think "app store spam" is a real thing, you've spent way too much time on app store. I install apps that I need -- news, banking, podcast, email, Uber etc, usually from well known companies. A small amount of apps are lesser known but they have good reviews. I don't think there is any fundamental difference from the Apple app store. Maybe do a check of yourself first.
- nolok 3y ago
  The moment there are more than a very minimal / virtually non existing amount of spam and scam, it doesn't matter who has more, whatever control are in place don't work, at least not to the extant of "you must make massive concession to your rights on your own device to ensure we can do that". That is my point of view, and to each their own I assume. As for Spotify, yes technically it's not blocked, probably because they know that's a line they can't cross. > iOS has, objectively, fewer problems than Android in these regards You really need to outline clearly what "regards" you mean in that front, and objectively implies fact backed. I would disagree with that statement as-is.
mort96 3y ago
And finally, Chromium will be able to become the dominant browser engine on yet another platform. I don't like Apple's restrictive policies. But the fact that Safari (or any non-Chromium browser) has 25% of the mobile market share is a good thing. We'll see how effectively Google will manage to convince users to switch. EDIT: As for the "you have the choice to stay within the walled garden" thing... no, you don't really. Developers have the choice to publish their app to the walled garden, but if I need a certain app, I don't have the choice to get that app through the walled garden. I will be forced to get the app where the developer of the app publishes it, just like I am currently forced to get the app through the App Store.
- Hamuko 3y ago
  Maybe Apple should just make good browsers if they want to compete, not just restrict people from installing other browsers. I want to get a native Firefox iOS version if it means that I can get uBlock Origin on it. If I could get it on Mobile Safari, then I'd have basically no reason to download Firefox. But no, they'd rather not have me use it on desktop or mobile, since no version of Safari supports proper adblocking. It's also a good time to remind people that the reason why you can't get a proper version of Firefox from the walled garden is because Apple explicitly doesn't allow Firefox to release it there. The walled garden very much prevents you from leaving it, and unwanted developers like Mozilla from entering it.
  - mort96 3y ago
    Firefox, IMO, is a good browser. It has laughably low market share. Browser market share has very little to do with the quality of the browser after a certain point. Safari is a pretty good browser, but it has a decent market share due to Apple's policies. Google Chrome is a pretty good browser, but it has crazy market share because everyone uses Google services for everything and Google pushes Chrome incredibly hard, to the point of intentionally breaking their websites and/or arbitrarily disabling certain features in non-Chrome browsers. Browsers don't really compete on their merits. FWIW, I'm also looking forward to having proper Firefox on my phone.
secretsatan 3y ago
It's the risk of attack through a sidechannel, the ability to install something on your phone, not just through leaving your phone attended, but social engineering etc. As an example of where your android example is worrying, stalker apps are currently only available for Android. I was always of the opinion that if you didn't like the walled garden, don't buy apple. That's also a choice. It looks like this was a successful startegy on apple's part, and people want to muscle in.
- nolok 3y ago
  What you're saying is "If you don't like the walled garden, don't buy john deere", essentially. When a product start becoming such an important part of its owner life, and has such a huge market share, I believe society should impose some rules on it to ensure it conforms with the ideals of said society. In this case, ability to be in control your non niche computing device. So I think this is a case where we must agree to disagree.
  - secretsatan 3y ago
    `When a product start becoming such an important part of its owner life, and has such a huge market share, I believe society should impose some rules on it to ensure it conforms with the ideals of said society. In this case, ability to be in control your non niche computing device.` But people buy them because of the restriction that you don't like. you're imposing your own standard on something you probably wouldn't even buy. I doubt most users give one single thought to rooting their phone
    - nolok 3y ago
      > But people buy them because of the restriction that you don't like You will need a source that people buy them because of the restriction. > you're imposing your own standard No, our EU society has done so, through our elected parliament. > I doubt most users give one single thought to rooting their phone This subject has nothing to do with rooting a phone.
rmccue 3y ago
> stepping out is a personal choice (but now is a choice for the user, instead of banning him from doing something apple doesn't like) The choice is the developer's not the user's, if the app is only available in one app store (which seems likely to be the majority case). Precisely because it is the developer's choice, users may be forced to leave the safety of the walled garden if they need an app that's not available - I saw another HN comment phrase it well as: if an app you need in order to "survive" is not available, you don't have a choice (for example, a banking app or a government app).
coldtea 3y ago
>you're free to stay well within the walled garden if you so desire, stepping out is a personal choice Not if Chrome gets a huge mobile web broswer share and you end up needing to use it for compatibility. Or if major third party apps that you want to use (say Facebook or YouTube or whatever) are all moving into their vendor's app stores. >the whole pretense of "the curating of the store allows them to ensure high quality safety" is frankly not in line with reality, the app store being full of crap and spam while blocking updates to apps that apple don't like (spotify for example). I don't think it is. It might not have only top tier apps, but it's not full of spam and crap the way the Android store is, and has a much smaller problem with malware. Just because the bad apps aren't reduced to 0% compared to Android, doesn't mean a 50-80% reduction is not already a good thing. As the "tech guy", I routinely have to uninstall slow crap stuff that hogs down the whole phone from parents and friends Android phones. iOS? Not so much, if ever.
- trollsund 3y ago
  > Or if major third party apps that you want to use (say Facebook or YouTube or whatever) are all moving into their vendor's app stores. The major third party apps are still on Google Play though, why should they act any differently on iOS? Your point on Chrome is indeed an issue, and I am pessimistic. While Firefox has a browser engine, how many can they spare to port/retrofit it for iOS?
- lern_too_spel 3y ago
  > I routinely have to uninstall slow crap stuff that hogs down the whole phone from parents and friends Android phones. iOS? Not so much, if ever. Your Android parents and friends are lucky. They are at least able to easily uninstall slow crap stuff from their phones. You cannot uninstall slow crap Safari from an iPhone.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    >You cannot uninstall slow crap Safari from an iPhone. Which is irrelevant. You can always not use it. And when you don't use it, it doesn't slow down your iPhone. In fact it doesn't slow down your iPhone even when you use it. In Safari's backend is close up there with Chrome for speed and beats Firefox (as seen in macOS, where all three engines are available). It also does so with much less memory and cpu load, to the point that it adds 20% or more of battery life to use it on a laptop.
cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
Anyone that’s actually listening to the other side of this conversation would already know what responses to expect from what you’ve said. By saying what you’re saying you’re really making out like you only seek to throw your opinion over the fence and walk off. There are legitimate cases to be made on both sides, but your comment is not one. Calling this clear a win for user choice is naive and frankly a tad self-centred. For the average iPhone user, a user that mind you realistically wasn’t asking anything of their device that was being stopped by Apple’s rules, realistically has more to lose here than they do to gain. Who the hell uses browser extensions in 2023 let alone ones that weren’t already available in Mobile Safari? This is above all a “win” for companies like Meta who will use their market power to create a more user-hostile experience for the common user. I don’t care if you don’t use Facebook anymore because you don’t like it. The reality is that a lot of people do, and the restrictions put in place by iOS definitely stop the Facebook app from being as bad as Meta would like it to. Now all it’s going to take is Meta to say “Instagram is only available on the Meta store”, or some variant thereof, for things to get a whole lot worse, quickly. Delusional indie developers see this as a win when in reality it was hard enough to get people to use their apps in the first place. Just as delusional are the tech enthusiasts that have along the way somehow conflated “cool new iOS features that I’m going to spend some time geeking out over” with “something that will legitimately make the experience better for end users at large”. Above all, the view that anyone that disagrees with you isn’t a smart utility-belt-wearing techie such as yourself is such an absurd hill to die on and avenue to assert your elitism. I’ve spent considerable time using Android devices and customised them out the wazoo. I know how computers work. Gentoo was my daily driver for a long time. I grew up obsessed with computers and everyone around me knew it. By any of the silly tribal measures that I’m sure you’d use to establish who is a “real nerd”, I’m probably going to quality. Please consider that the fact that you can’t comprehend why supposedly smart people disagree with you may be a sign that you aren’t interrogating your own view enough, rather than it being a sign that you’re the only sane person in a world going insane.
- d3w4s9 3y ago
  You might want to check out the Firefox add-on (extension) store for Android before posting such uninformed comments.
amusingimpala75 3y ago
Orion + FF or Chrome extensions already exists for iOS, implementing the extension interfaces on top of WebKit. Which part is the one you want, the extensions or Firefox? ‘Cause if you just want uBO on iOS you already can.
d3w4s9 3y ago
Reading many of the sibling comments just makes me laugh. Android has allowed everything from the beginning, and overall it looks... fine? Of course there are all kinds of malicious actors who manage to publish malware on Play Store or trick people into sideloading, but if my mom, a basic Android user who knows very little about how computers and phones work, never got herself into trouble, that says something. You must be either dumb enough or really understand exactly what you are doing to go way out of the safe zone to download a shady app. And anyone concerned about browser's safety -- if that were a real thing we'd have already been screwed on Windows and Mac. The reality is that most people use Chrome and it is generally safe enough for everyday use. Some people use Firefox, Brave and whatever but most of those are well maintained. If you install a browser that nobody knows, that's your problem. This is just all fear mongering. So stupid.
d3w4s9 3y ago
Reading many of the sibling comments just makes me laugh. Android has allowed everything from the beginning, and overall it looks... fine? Of course there are all kinds of malicious actors who manage to publish malware on Play Store or trick people into sideloading, but if my mom, a basic Android user who knows very little about how computers and phones work, never got herself into trouble, that says something. You must be either dumb enough or really understand exactly what you are doing to go way out of the safe zone to download a shady app. And anyone concerned about browser's safety -- if that were a real thing we'd have already been screwed on Windows and Mac. The reality is that most people use Chrome and it is generally safe enough for everyday use. Some people use Firefox, Brave and whatever but most of those are well maintained. If you install a browser that nobody knows, that's your problem. This is just all fear mongering. So stupid.
merrywhether 3y ago
> choice for the user I find it ironic when this is framed as user choice when it is being lobbied by massive corporate interests for their own benefit. Epic wants to give you the “choice” to download Fortnite from exactly one place, forcing you to install their App Store if you want to engage in that fairly important social network. Google wants to give you the “choice” to help create total Chrome hegemony, giving them an absolute monopoly on web tracking once they disable 3P cookies this year. Is the DMA going to step in there and give users the choice to configure their tracking engine in that monopolistic market? How many recursions of choice will DMA protect? Or was there already choice in the form of Android as people continually point out?

by nolok 3y ago

jonbell 3y ago

1) More spam on Android by far 2) Spotify not blocked There’s a bit of religion happening in both directions. iOS has, objectively, fewer problems than Android in these regards and part of that are the policies.

repox 3y ago
> There’s a bit of religion happening in both directions. iOS has, objectively, fewer problems than Android in these regards and part of that are the policies. When you say "objectively" I assume that this is something that has been measured and that there are reliable sources for this statement?
- ruszki 3y ago
  I would be really surprised. Anytime when I’ve searched for a feature (like DLNA sharing), and not for a specific app, I’ve got only very shitty spam apps in both stores. Even when I search for specific app, like GTA, the results deteriorate very quickly, in both stores.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
poisonborz 3y ago
iOS has a fraction of the userbase and developer activity of Android globally, which affects also the US market, from where it might seem dominant.
- rvz 3y ago
  No wonder that explains the amount of ransomware garbage on Android devices out there: [0] and it is more prevalent on Android than iOS. [1] [0] https://www.cloudsek.com/threatintelligence/copy-of-malware-intelligence-analysis-of-daam-android-malware https://www.cloudsek.com/threatintelligence/copy-of-malware-... [1] https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2023/09/22/apps-attack-risk https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2023/09/22/apps-attack-risk
seszett 3y ago
What do you mean by "spam on Android" though? I don't get spam on my phone (well, SMS spam sometimes but that has nothing to do with the OS) and nobody I know does. Also, I keep hearing on HN that iOS doesn't split notifications into channels and you can't block just the ad notifications. Unlike on Android where I block the ads for Uber Eats, the only application that wants to spam me (but doesn't, since I can just disable ads).
- khazhoux 3y ago
  App store spam
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - mort96 3y ago
    I think this would be a better argument if Apple wasn't so careless with what they accept on the App Store. There are scam apps, apps which try to trick users into accepting subscriptions, tonnes and tonnes of "casino for children" games, games which clearly try to trick children into spending their parents' money, etc.
  - d3w4s9 3y ago
    If you think "app store spam" is a real thing, you've spent way too much time on app store. I install apps that I need -- news, banking, podcast, email, Uber etc, usually from well known companies. A small amount of apps are lesser known but they have good reviews. I don't think there is any fundamental difference from the Apple app store. Maybe do a check of yourself first.
nolok 3y ago
The moment there are more than a very minimal / virtually non existing amount of spam and scam, it doesn't matter who has more, whatever control are in place don't work, at least not to the extant of "you must make massive concession to your rights on your own device to ensure we can do that". That is my point of view, and to each their own I assume. As for Spotify, yes technically it's not blocked, probably because they know that's a line they can't cross. > iOS has, objectively, fewer problems than Android in these regards You really need to outline clearly what "regards" you mean in that front, and objectively implies fact backed. I would disagree with that statement as-is.

mort96 3y ago

And finally, Chromium will be able to become the dominant browser engine on yet another platform. I don't like Apple's restrictive policies. But the fact that Safari (or any non-Chromium browser) has 25% of the mobile market share is a good thing. We'll see how effectively Google will manage to convince users to switch. EDIT: As for the "you have the choice to stay within the walled garden" thing... no, you don't really. Developers have the choice to publish their app to the walled garden, but if I need a certain app, I don't have the choice to get that app through the walled garden. I will be forced to get the app where the developer of the app publishes it, just like I am currently forced to get the app through the App Store.

Hamuko 3y ago
Maybe Apple should just make good browsers if they want to compete, not just restrict people from installing other browsers. I want to get a native Firefox iOS version if it means that I can get uBlock Origin on it. If I could get it on Mobile Safari, then I'd have basically no reason to download Firefox. But no, they'd rather not have me use it on desktop or mobile, since no version of Safari supports proper adblocking. It's also a good time to remind people that the reason why you can't get a proper version of Firefox from the walled garden is because Apple explicitly doesn't allow Firefox to release it there. The walled garden very much prevents you from leaving it, and unwanted developers like Mozilla from entering it.
- mort96 3y ago
  Firefox, IMO, is a good browser. It has laughably low market share. Browser market share has very little to do with the quality of the browser after a certain point. Safari is a pretty good browser, but it has a decent market share due to Apple's policies. Google Chrome is a pretty good browser, but it has crazy market share because everyone uses Google services for everything and Google pushes Chrome incredibly hard, to the point of intentionally breaking their websites and/or arbitrarily disabling certain features in non-Chrome browsers. Browsers don't really compete on their merits. FWIW, I'm also looking forward to having proper Firefox on my phone.

secretsatan 3y ago

It's the risk of attack through a sidechannel, the ability to install something on your phone, not just through leaving your phone attended, but social engineering etc. As an example of where your android example is worrying, stalker apps are currently only available for Android. I was always of the opinion that if you didn't like the walled garden, don't buy apple. That's also a choice. It looks like this was a successful startegy on apple's part, and people want to muscle in.

nolok 3y ago
What you're saying is "If you don't like the walled garden, don't buy john deere", essentially. When a product start becoming such an important part of its owner life, and has such a huge market share, I believe society should impose some rules on it to ensure it conforms with the ideals of said society. In this case, ability to be in control your non niche computing device. So I think this is a case where we must agree to disagree.
- secretsatan 3y ago
  `When a product start becoming such an important part of its owner life, and has such a huge market share, I believe society should impose some rules on it to ensure it conforms with the ideals of said society. In this case, ability to be in control your non niche computing device.` But people buy them because of the restriction that you don't like. you're imposing your own standard on something you probably wouldn't even buy. I doubt most users give one single thought to rooting their phone
  - nolok 3y ago
    > But people buy them because of the restriction that you don't like You will need a source that people buy them because of the restriction. > you're imposing your own standard No, our EU society has done so, through our elected parliament. > I doubt most users give one single thought to rooting their phone This subject has nothing to do with rooting a phone.

rmccue 3y ago

> stepping out is a personal choice (but now is a choice for the user, instead of banning him from doing something apple doesn't like) The choice is the developer's not the user's, if the app is only available in one app store (which seems likely to be the majority case). Precisely because it is the developer's choice, users may be forced to leave the safety of the walled garden if they need an app that's not available - I saw another HN comment phrase it well as: if an app you need in order to "survive" is not available, you don't have a choice (for example, a banking app or a government app).

coldtea 3y ago

>you're free to stay well within the walled garden if you so desire, stepping out is a personal choice Not if Chrome gets a huge mobile web broswer share and you end up needing to use it for compatibility. Or if major third party apps that you want to use (say Facebook or YouTube or whatever) are all moving into their vendor's app stores. >the whole pretense of "the curating of the store allows them to ensure high quality safety" is frankly not in line with reality, the app store being full of crap and spam while blocking updates to apps that apple don't like (spotify for example). I don't think it is. It might not have only top tier apps, but it's not full of spam and crap the way the Android store is, and has a much smaller problem with malware. Just because the bad apps aren't reduced to 0% compared to Android, doesn't mean a 50-80% reduction is not already a good thing. As the "tech guy", I routinely have to uninstall slow crap stuff that hogs down the whole phone from parents and friends Android phones. iOS? Not so much, if ever.

trollsund 3y ago
> Or if major third party apps that you want to use (say Facebook or YouTube or whatever) are all moving into their vendor's app stores. The major third party apps are still on Google Play though, why should they act any differently on iOS? Your point on Chrome is indeed an issue, and I am pessimistic. While Firefox has a browser engine, how many can they spare to port/retrofit it for iOS?
lern_too_spel 3y ago
> I routinely have to uninstall slow crap stuff that hogs down the whole phone from parents and friends Android phones. iOS? Not so much, if ever. Your Android parents and friends are lucky. They are at least able to easily uninstall slow crap stuff from their phones. You cannot uninstall slow crap Safari from an iPhone.
- coldtea 3y ago
  >You cannot uninstall slow crap Safari from an iPhone. Which is irrelevant. You can always not use it. And when you don't use it, it doesn't slow down your iPhone. In fact it doesn't slow down your iPhone even when you use it. In Safari's backend is close up there with Chrome for speed and beats Firefox (as seen in macOS, where all three engines are available). It also does so with much less memory and cpu load, to the point that it adds 20% or more of battery life to use it on a laptop.

cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago

Anyone that’s actually listening to the other side of this conversation would already know what responses to expect from what you’ve said. By saying what you’re saying you’re really making out like you only seek to throw your opinion over the fence and walk off. There are legitimate cases to be made on both sides, but your comment is not one. Calling this clear a win for user choice is naive and frankly a tad self-centred. For the average iPhone user, a user that mind you realistically wasn’t asking anything of their device that was being stopped by Apple’s rules, realistically has more to lose here than they do to gain. Who the hell uses browser extensions in 2023 let alone ones that weren’t already available in Mobile Safari? This is above all a “win” for companies like Meta who will use their market power to create a more user-hostile experience for the common user. I don’t care if you don’t use Facebook anymore because you don’t like it. The reality is that a lot of people do, and the restrictions put in place by iOS definitely stop the Facebook app from being as bad as Meta would like it to. Now all it’s going to take is Meta to say “Instagram is only available on the Meta store”, or some variant thereof, for things to get a whole lot worse, quickly. Delusional indie developers see this as a win when in reality it was hard enough to get people to use their apps in the first place. Just as delusional are the tech enthusiasts that have along the way somehow conflated “cool new iOS features that I’m going to spend some time geeking out over” with “something that will legitimately make the experience better for end users at large”. Above all, the view that anyone that disagrees with you isn’t a smart utility-belt-wearing techie such as yourself is such an absurd hill to die on and avenue to assert your elitism. I’ve spent considerable time using Android devices and customised them out the wazoo. I know how computers work. Gentoo was my daily driver for a long time. I grew up obsessed with computers and everyone around me knew it. By any of the silly tribal measures that I’m sure you’d use to establish who is a “real nerd”, I’m probably going to quality. Please consider that the fact that you can’t comprehend why supposedly smart people disagree with you may be a sign that you aren’t interrogating your own view enough, rather than it being a sign that you’re the only sane person in a world going insane.

d3w4s9 3y ago
You might want to check out the Firefox add-on (extension) store for Android before posting such uninformed comments.

amusingimpala75 3y ago

Orion + FF or Chrome extensions already exists for iOS, implementing the extension interfaces on top of WebKit. Which part is the one you want, the extensions or Firefox? ‘Cause if you just want uBO on iOS you already can.

d3w4s9 3y ago

Reading many of the sibling comments just makes me laugh. Android has allowed everything from the beginning, and overall it looks... fine? Of course there are all kinds of malicious actors who manage to publish malware on Play Store or trick people into sideloading, but if my mom, a basic Android user who knows very little about how computers and phones work, never got herself into trouble, that says something. You must be either dumb enough or really understand exactly what you are doing to go way out of the safe zone to download a shady app. And anyone concerned about browser's safety -- if that were a real thing we'd have already been screwed on Windows and Mac. The reality is that most people use Chrome and it is generally safe enough for everyday use. Some people use Firefox, Brave and whatever but most of those are well maintained. If you install a browser that nobody knows, that's your problem. This is just all fear mongering. So stupid.

d3w4s9 3y ago

merrywhether 3y ago

> choice for the user I find it ironic when this is framed as user choice when it is being lobbied by massive corporate interests for their own benefit. Epic wants to give you the “choice” to download Fortnite from exactly one place, forcing you to install their App Store if you want to engage in that fairly important social network. Google wants to give you the “choice” to help create total Chrome hegemony, giving them an absolute monopoly on web tracking once they disable 3P cookies this year. Is the DMA going to step in there and give users the choice to configure their tracking engine in that monopolistic market? How many recursions of choice will DMA protect? Or was there already choice in the form of Android as people continually point out?