3 ms·

I'd like to read the original analysis. My concern isn't about cannon fodder provision but about all round health. Kids growing up with exercise and a penchant

I'd like to read the original analysis. My concern isn't about cannon fodder provision but about all round health. Kids growing up with exercise and a penchant for adventure are IMO better placed to succeed in life (long term health benefits, bravery etc.) but not so if they break their legs all the time falling off of things. It's not obvious to me how to balance these things. The links you provide, as far as I can skim, don't weigh in on the tradeoff.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
I think their root problem is insufficient kids, period. Then a certain percentage breaking their legs is tolerable, on a society level.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  I grew up in a different century ("no blood no foul"), so for me the english question "Are you OK?" should normally be answered with "yes" unless there are significant quantities of blood or bones are broken. (I guess a more explicit equivalent would be "are you in need of medical assistance?") Is this still the protocol among anglophone children, or has it changed during the intervening decades?
  - happymellon 3y ago
    > Are you OK? Don't worry, all the damage is mental and won't manifest itself until I'm middle aged.
  - rich_sasha 3y ago
    Admittedly there is a resurgence of understanding the benefits of risk taking, but to demonstrate the status quo, a school outing to a museum requires a risk assessment to be made, weight the benefits of, well, a school trip, against risks of walking on streets etc.
    - 082349872349872 3y ago
      I'm glad to be living where I do, then: here school kids are absolutely expected to be walking on the streets —up until they get bikes, anyway— four times per day.
- rich_sasha 3y ago
  See, I don't care about the society here, just my own n=2 sample. There is an optimal policy with regards to risk taking, it surely involves taking more risks than socially acceptable, but how much? Is my question.
angra_mainyu 3y ago
To be honest, even the risk of injury is minor, kids are incredibly resilient (I was at least). Wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment and far too many kids these days are growing up raised entirely by electronics. I recall my parents shutting off the electronics and forcing us outside, which was a huge boon. My dad was also always down to go on adventures and get dirty.
- rich_sasha 3y ago
  Well, sure, kids mostly bounce back. But there must be a point beyond which the health hazards outweigh "character building". I just wonder where it is. Climbing a climbing frame? Surely fine. A ladder? Most likely. Climbing a tree? Probably fine, though also depends. Climbing onto a steep roof? Uh oh. Soloing El Cap? I'll leave that to grown ups.
  - dingclancy 3y ago
    Climbing a tree is probably fine? I think the paper addressed this but what we consider risky play now is so sanitized. I am pretty sure climbing a tree is more than fine even 30 years ago.
thaumasiotes 3y ago
> Kids growing up with exercise and a penchant for adventure are IMO better placed to succeed in life (long term health benefits, bravery etc.) but not so if they break their legs all the time falling off of things. It's not obvious to me how to balance these things. Kids breaking their legs all the time falling off of things has never been a problem at any point in history. This suggests that no effort is needed to ensure that it isn't a problem in the future. You don't need protections against things that don't ever happen.
- eru 3y ago
  Kids losing life and limb to accidents did happen in the past, and the rates might be higher than what we want to tolerate today. We certainly don't tolerate the child mortality rates of previous ages (though most of those were caused by disease, of course). So while I agree with what you are arguing for, I don't think your argument is valid by itself.
impossiblefork 3y ago
Why is breaking ones legs so horrible? I broke my leg once in my youth, it wasn't that bad. Edit: I should remark though, that this was a very clean break, some it might not be representative of the average broken bone.
- AstralStorm 3y ago
  Well, breaking your neck, head or mind is worse. Our "design at safery" tends to do the latter instead...
  - impossiblefork 3y ago
    Really?
- rich_sasha 3y ago
  Some broken limbs carry a lifelong disability, or at least material reduction in limb function. I don't know what proportion, and hence how to weight that against "adventure".

lotsofpulp 3y ago

I think their root problem is insufficient kids, period. Then a certain percentage breaking their legs is tolerable, on a society level.

082349872349872 3y ago
I grew up in a different century ("no blood no foul"), so for me the english question "Are you OK?" should normally be answered with "yes" unless there are significant quantities of blood or bones are broken. (I guess a more explicit equivalent would be "are you in need of medical assistance?") Is this still the protocol among anglophone children, or has it changed during the intervening decades?
- happymellon 3y ago
  > Are you OK? Don't worry, all the damage is mental and won't manifest itself until I'm middle aged.
- rich_sasha 3y ago
  Admittedly there is a resurgence of understanding the benefits of risk taking, but to demonstrate the status quo, a school outing to a museum requires a risk assessment to be made, weight the benefits of, well, a school trip, against risks of walking on streets etc.
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    I'm glad to be living where I do, then: here school kids are absolutely expected to be walking on the streets —up until they get bikes, anyway— four times per day.
rich_sasha 3y ago
See, I don't care about the society here, just my own n=2 sample. There is an optimal policy with regards to risk taking, it surely involves taking more risks than socially acceptable, but how much? Is my question.

angra_mainyu 3y ago

To be honest, even the risk of injury is minor, kids are incredibly resilient (I was at least). Wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment and far too many kids these days are growing up raised entirely by electronics. I recall my parents shutting off the electronics and forcing us outside, which was a huge boon. My dad was also always down to go on adventures and get dirty.

rich_sasha 3y ago
Well, sure, kids mostly bounce back. But there must be a point beyond which the health hazards outweigh "character building". I just wonder where it is. Climbing a climbing frame? Surely fine. A ladder? Most likely. Climbing a tree? Probably fine, though also depends. Climbing onto a steep roof? Uh oh. Soloing El Cap? I'll leave that to grown ups.
- dingclancy 3y ago
  Climbing a tree is probably fine? I think the paper addressed this but what we consider risky play now is so sanitized. I am pretty sure climbing a tree is more than fine even 30 years ago.

thaumasiotes 3y ago

> Kids growing up with exercise and a penchant for adventure are IMO better placed to succeed in life (long term health benefits, bravery etc.) but not so if they break their legs all the time falling off of things. It's not obvious to me how to balance these things. Kids breaking their legs all the time falling off of things has never been a problem at any point in history. This suggests that no effort is needed to ensure that it isn't a problem in the future. You don't need protections against things that don't ever happen.

eru 3y ago
Kids losing life and limb to accidents did happen in the past, and the rates might be higher than what we want to tolerate today. We certainly don't tolerate the child mortality rates of previous ages (though most of those were caused by disease, of course). So while I agree with what you are arguing for, I don't think your argument is valid by itself.

impossiblefork 3y ago

Why is breaking ones legs so horrible? I broke my leg once in my youth, it wasn't that bad. Edit: I should remark though, that this was a very clean break, some it might not be representative of the average broken bone.

AstralStorm 3y ago
Well, breaking your neck, head or mind is worse. Our "design at safery" tends to do the latter instead...
- impossiblefork 3y ago
  Really?
rich_sasha 3y ago
Some broken limbs carry a lifelong disability, or at least material reduction in limb function. I don't know what proportion, and hence how to weight that against "adventure".