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I’m paying how much to buy a phone from Apple, and then they also want to get paid every time I install something whether they’re involved or not? It’s none of

I’m paying how much to buy a phone from Apple, and then they also want to get paid every time I install something whether they’re involved or not? It’s none of their business what I want to do.

a_wild_dandan 3y ago
It's such brazen, inexcusable rent-seeking. Apple wants to insert themselves into everyone's personal business and demand a cut, like some mob boss. "That's a nice app you got there. Be a shame if something were to...happen to it." Charge developers at-cost for hosting/distribution. Want more compensation for producing the hardware/platform? Here's my $1,000 receipt. Now go away.
- Swenrekcah 3y ago
  I have some subscriptions that are managed through the subscription portal which is a convenient place to keep track of them. I can cancel renewals and the plan keeps working for the agreed upon period, except subscriptions from Apple. There it explicitly says that if I cancel renewal for a trial period, my access is immediately cut. Seems a bit dishonest from our protector and guardian.
  - dev_tty01 3y ago
    Hmm, I haven't seen this. But I am curious, how is that dishonest? It sounds like it is explicitly stated, so you know what will happen. What Apple subscriptions? Logic Pro? Are you talking about a free trial or a paid trial? Also, if it is paid and you cancel and they terminate usage, do you end up seeing a refund for the balance of the time? With third-party devs, they have already sent the money along to the dev so they would have to pull back money to terminate immediately and refund the prorated balance of the subscription cost to the user. That would be hard on devs.
    - Swenrekcah 3y ago
      It was an apple arcade trial. A free trial, otherwise it would be more than dishonest. But the dishonesty comes from allowing users to take risk-free advantage of free trials from third parties (which is good for consumers and business in general), but subjecting the same users to potentially unwanted renewals when it comes to an Apple product. Rules for thee, not for me, says Apple to devs and users.
  - crazygringo 3y ago
    (Edit: never mind, I thought I remembered my Apple TV+ trial continuing after cancelling, but I must have misremembered.)
    - 05 3y ago
      Here’s [1] an article claiming Apple revokes Apple TV+ trial access as soon as the auto-renewal is canceled. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/1/20943286/apple-tv-plus-free-trial-one-year-new-devices-cancel-auto-renew-how-to https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/1/20943286/apple-tv-plus-fr...
    - Swenrekcah 3y ago
      For me it was an apple arcade trial
dev_tty01 3y ago
Setting aside whether it is justified or not, Apple is involved. Your app is heavily dependent on Apple built APIs (and hardware). Up till now, developers paid $100/year plus a value based per user royalty that was(is) part of Apple's cut of App Store purchases. Now developers will pay $100/year plus a per user royalty when the user count exceeds 1 million. If the developer stays on the App Store with a free app, there will still not be a per user charge. Edit: I should have been specific that I was referring to the Core Tech Fee that will apply even to free apps with more than a million users. Developers will still pay a value based royalty of 10% (small devs) or 17% (large devs) for paid apps.
cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
You aren’t the only party in the transaction. There’s also the entity providing the application in the first place. Don’t use loaded phrases like “none of their business” which make the privacy wonks start salivating when that’s is not what this is about.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- wiseowise 3y ago
  > You aren’t the only party in the transaction. I am. And even if I’m not, I don’t give a rats ass. If entity providing the application wants money, it can talk to me.
  - mjhagen 3y ago
    As I understand it, the application is using Apple's APIs which could include things Apple needs to pay license fees to other parties for.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      Sure. And you'd think that is built in when an IOS dev pays their $100/year licensing fee. If not, I wouldn't be opposed to the paying to review apps outside of the App Store (where their 30% cut assumedly takes into account for App store apps), as long as the review is purely for security and not to comply with App Store rules (since I am not hosting it on the app store). But charging everytime someone download a semi-popular app, or worse, updates that app (since the install fee is per year) starts to go beyond "what value am I bringing to this feature?"
    - crowcroft 3y ago
      Somehow we figured this out for desktop OSes.
- simiones 3y ago
  The point is that if I'm buying an app from, say, some Facebook store to install on my iPhone, Apple is not involved in this transaction, so they shouldn't get a cut.

I’m paying how much to buy a phone from Apple, and then they also want to get paid every time I install something whether they’re involved or not? It’s none of their business what I want to do.

a_wild_dandan 3y ago

It's such brazen, inexcusable rent-seeking. Apple wants to insert themselves into everyone's personal business and demand a cut, like some mob boss. "That's a nice app you got there. Be a shame if something were to...happen to it." Charge developers at-cost for hosting/distribution. Want more compensation for producing the hardware/platform? Here's my $1,000 receipt. Now go away.

Swenrekcah 3y ago
I have some subscriptions that are managed through the subscription portal which is a convenient place to keep track of them. I can cancel renewals and the plan keeps working for the agreed upon period, except subscriptions from Apple. There it explicitly says that if I cancel renewal for a trial period, my access is immediately cut. Seems a bit dishonest from our protector and guardian.
- dev_tty01 3y ago
  Hmm, I haven't seen this. But I am curious, how is that dishonest? It sounds like it is explicitly stated, so you know what will happen. What Apple subscriptions? Logic Pro? Are you talking about a free trial or a paid trial? Also, if it is paid and you cancel and they terminate usage, do you end up seeing a refund for the balance of the time? With third-party devs, they have already sent the money along to the dev so they would have to pull back money to terminate immediately and refund the prorated balance of the subscription cost to the user. That would be hard on devs.
  - Swenrekcah 3y ago
    It was an apple arcade trial. A free trial, otherwise it would be more than dishonest. But the dishonesty comes from allowing users to take risk-free advantage of free trials from third parties (which is good for consumers and business in general), but subjecting the same users to potentially unwanted renewals when it comes to an Apple product. Rules for thee, not for me, says Apple to devs and users.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  (Edit: never mind, I thought I remembered my Apple TV+ trial continuing after cancelling, but I must have misremembered.)
  - 05 3y ago
    Here’s [1] an article claiming Apple revokes Apple TV+ trial access as soon as the auto-renewal is canceled. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/1/20943286/apple-tv-plus-free-trial-one-year-new-devices-cancel-auto-renew-how-to https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/1/20943286/apple-tv-plus-fr...
  - Swenrekcah 3y ago
    For me it was an apple arcade trial

dev_tty01 3y ago

Setting aside whether it is justified or not, Apple is involved. Your app is heavily dependent on Apple built APIs (and hardware). Up till now, developers paid $100/year plus a value based per user royalty that was(is) part of Apple's cut of App Store purchases. Now developers will pay $100/year plus a per user royalty when the user count exceeds 1 million. If the developer stays on the App Store with a free app, there will still not be a per user charge. Edit: I should have been specific that I was referring to the Core Tech Fee that will apply even to free apps with more than a million users. Developers will still pay a value based royalty of 10% (small devs) or 17% (large devs) for paid apps.

cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago

You aren’t the only party in the transaction. There’s also the entity providing the application in the first place. Don’t use loaded phrases like “none of their business” which make the privacy wonks start salivating when that’s is not what this is about.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
wiseowise 3y ago
> You aren’t the only party in the transaction. I am. And even if I’m not, I don’t give a rats ass. If entity providing the application wants money, it can talk to me.
- mjhagen 3y ago
  As I understand it, the application is using Apple's APIs which could include things Apple needs to pay license fees to other parties for.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    Sure. And you'd think that is built in when an IOS dev pays their $100/year licensing fee. If not, I wouldn't be opposed to the paying to review apps outside of the App Store (where their 30% cut assumedly takes into account for App store apps), as long as the review is purely for security and not to comply with App Store rules (since I am not hosting it on the app store). But charging everytime someone download a semi-popular app, or worse, updates that app (since the install fee is per year) starts to go beyond "what value am I bringing to this feature?"
  - crowcroft 3y ago
    Somehow we figured this out for desktop OSes.
simiones 3y ago
The point is that if I'm buying an app from, say, some Facebook store to install on my iPhone, Apple is not involved in this transaction, so they shouldn't get a cut.