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...you really think the low crime rates in Japan are due to aggressive punishment? From what I hear, it might have a little bit to do with societal expectation

by sfink 3y ago

...you really think the low crime rates in Japan are due to aggressive punishment? From what I hear, it might have a little bit to do with societal expectations (NOT resulting from fear of imprisonment, btw), underreporting, it being easier to keep things under control than get them under control, and near full employment, among other things. We have systematically underfunded social programs and evaluated their costs and benefits based on everything but their actual holistic effectiveness. Rehabilitation? Do you have any idea how quaint the idea of real rehabilitation is, at an actual prison? Sorry, but removing all the bad guys and thus leaving behind only good guys doesn't work. Never has, never will, not least because it's based on incorrect assumptions. (And I don't even disagree that time and effort get wasted on trying to change people who aren't going to change. Especially not with the situation we leave them in.)

thegrimmest 3y ago
> Do you have any idea how quaint the idea of real rehabilitation is, at an actual prison? This seems pretty easily and cheaply fixable. Information access is nearly free, and all that's required is sufficient discipline and structure provided by prison staff. > removing all the bad guys and thus leaving behind only good guys doesn't work Isn't that the entire idea of the penal model? The primary purpose of imprisoning people is to keep the rest of us safe from them (incapacitation). A tiny minority of people commit most crime (especially violent crime), and imprisoning them for long terms does in fact reduce the crime rate[1]. As we seem to agree (and research supports), other interventions are ineffective on many of these people. Per my other comment[2], I think we can do this much more cheaply than we do, and with much better (or at least equivalent) outcomes. I also recommend this documentary[3], for a deeper look at the Japanese penal system. It tries to take a critical perspective, but my neck is just about sore from nodding along in agreement with Japanese practices. 1. F E Zimring, G Hawkins (1995). Incapacitation: Penal Confinement and the Restraint of Crime. 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39125405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39125405 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxfh66MFKME https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxfh66MFKME

by sfink 3y ago

thegrimmest 3y ago

> Do you have any idea how quaint the idea of real rehabilitation is, at an actual prison? This seems pretty easily and cheaply fixable. Information access is nearly free, and all that's required is sufficient discipline and structure provided by prison staff. > removing all the bad guys and thus leaving behind only good guys doesn't work Isn't that the entire idea of the penal model? The primary purpose of imprisoning people is to keep the rest of us safe from them (incapacitation). A tiny minority of people commit most crime (especially violent crime), and imprisoning them for long terms does in fact reduce the crime rate[1]. As we seem to agree (and research supports), other interventions are ineffective on many of these people. Per my other comment[2], I think we can do this much more cheaply than we do, and with much better (or at least equivalent) outcomes. I also recommend this documentary[3], for a deeper look at the Japanese penal system. It tries to take a critical perspective, but my neck is just about sore from nodding along in agreement with Japanese practices. 1. F E Zimring, G Hawkins (1995). Incapacitation: Penal Confinement and the Restraint of Crime. 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39125405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39125405 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxfh66MFKME https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxfh66MFKME