4 ms·

Both can be true.

by natch 3y ago

Both can be true.

oblio 3y ago
Android is not overrun by independent app stores. This is a non issue.
- natch 3y ago
  It’s nothing to do with being overrun by an independent app store. That is a total red herring. The real issue… stay with me, it’s a lot of words… is that alternative unreviewed or poorly reviewed app distribution mechanisms open a pathway to pervasive abuse via installation of malicious privacy violating apps onto devices of unwitting targets by people other than the targeted device users.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    Let’s ban PCs because this issue has been such a huge problem
    - halostatue 3y ago
      Despite the fact that Chromebooks are generally mediocre-to-bad hardware, there are a lot of school systems where this is exactly what has been done for classroom hardware. Even outside of school systems, there is a wide variety of virtual desktop systems where office employees essentially get a fresh install of the OS every morning with their files where they should be — because they can't be trusted to manage a dedicated piece of hardware without adding malware.
      - depressedpanda 3y ago
        Chromebooks aren't as locked down as iDevices
        halostatue 3y ago
        For personally purchased Chromebooks, you are partially correct. You can set up a Linux sandbox on a Chromebook or you can run sandboxed Android applications from Google Play. You can even side load Android applications via "developer mode" or the Linux sandbox. For managed Chromebooks, you are incorrect. They are usually configured so that the end-user cannot install additional software, enable developer mode, or set up the Linux sandbox, making them often less useful than Apple iOS or iPadOS devices. The GGP comment said we should ban PCs [because they're too dangerous for most people to use]. And with Chromebooks or thin clients with virtual desktops, that is exactly what a lot of organizations have done. None of which you addressed in your knee-jerk response that is about as coherent as "M$" was back in the day (and I did my share of that when I was young and stupid).
        depressedpanda 3y ago
        Why partially correct for personally purchased Chromebooks? Apart from what you mentioned, it's also (or at least has been, I haven't tried in a while) possible to install Linux natively on a Chromebook. That's a lot more open than anything running iOS. You didn't specify managed Chromebooks, but I also didn't know they could be locked down to such a degree, thanks for informing me. > None of which you addressed in your knee-jerk response that is about as coherent as "M$" was back in the day (and I did my share of that when I was young and stupid). I honestly don't see why you felt the need to add this last paragraph. Was it "iDevices"? I just used it for convenience. Either way, the snark is totally unnecessary, your comment is better without it.
        halostatue 3y ago
        Partially correct because Linux is running under a sandbox and all applications within Linux are in that sandbox. My comment about "school systems and corporations" did sort of imply "managed"; there's not a public school system in the world that would give their students unmanaged Chromebooks. Some private schools might, but the private schools are also more likely to have it tightly controlled and install spyware because of the "threat of cyber-cheating" (I wish I were kidding: https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-pri...). My apologies on the snark — it’s too late to edit it, but I read your "iDevices" as snark itself, since most of this discussion has been populated by people who have reflexive anti-Apple stances with exactly no nuance on their stances, so I let my frustration get the better of me. Mea maxima culpa.
      - HDThoreaun 3y ago
        I dont enjoy being treated like an elementary schooler, and I dont see why apple should be allowed to do so against my wishes.
        halostatue 3y ago
        Then don't buy Apple hardware. There are those of us who find Apple's walled garden approach preferable to having to (1) tweak everything all the time because we can't get audio working or (2) we have to run three different competing antivirus scanners that make our 2024 computer run like it was made in 1983 or (3) be stuck in Google's walled garden where even if you pay, you are still the product. Does Apple need to change things? Yes. But I — and I know that I’m not alone on this — happen to agree with Apple that the DMA changes requested will reduce overall security for customers. There may be worthwhile changes that happen because of the DMA, but the reduced security position is real.
        HDThoreaun 3y ago
        Or maybe you dont download 3rd party app stores. Nothing changes if you dont want it to. Apple makes a very good product, that doesnt mean they should be allowed to hamstring it anti competitively.
- girvo 3y ago
  It does have a large amount of malware too, though
johnnyanmac 3y ago
Motte and Bailey's also co-exist. But we know no one really lounges in the bailey when it's not requires.
- natch 3y ago
  What are those.

Both can be true.

by natch 3y ago

Both can be true.

oblio 3y ago

Android is not overrun by independent app stores. This is a non issue.

natch 3y ago
It’s nothing to do with being overrun by an independent app store. That is a total red herring. The real issue… stay with me, it’s a lot of words… is that alternative unreviewed or poorly reviewed app distribution mechanisms open a pathway to pervasive abuse via installation of malicious privacy violating apps onto devices of unwitting targets by people other than the targeted device users.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  Let’s ban PCs because this issue has been such a huge problem
  - halostatue 3y ago
    Despite the fact that Chromebooks are generally mediocre-to-bad hardware, there are a lot of school systems where this is exactly what has been done for classroom hardware. Even outside of school systems, there is a wide variety of virtual desktop systems where office employees essentially get a fresh install of the OS every morning with their files where they should be — because they can't be trusted to manage a dedicated piece of hardware without adding malware.
    - depressedpanda 3y ago
      Chromebooks aren't as locked down as iDevices
      - halostatue 3y ago
        For personally purchased Chromebooks, you are partially correct. You can set up a Linux sandbox on a Chromebook or you can run sandboxed Android applications from Google Play. You can even side load Android applications via "developer mode" or the Linux sandbox. For managed Chromebooks, you are incorrect. They are usually configured so that the end-user cannot install additional software, enable developer mode, or set up the Linux sandbox, making them often less useful than Apple iOS or iPadOS devices. The GGP comment said we should ban PCs [because they're too dangerous for most people to use]. And with Chromebooks or thin clients with virtual desktops, that is exactly what a lot of organizations have done. None of which you addressed in your knee-jerk response that is about as coherent as "M$" was back in the day (and I did my share of that when I was young and stupid).
        depressedpanda 3y ago
        Why partially correct for personally purchased Chromebooks? Apart from what you mentioned, it's also (or at least has been, I haven't tried in a while) possible to install Linux natively on a Chromebook. That's a lot more open than anything running iOS. You didn't specify managed Chromebooks, but I also didn't know they could be locked down to such a degree, thanks for informing me. > None of which you addressed in your knee-jerk response that is about as coherent as "M$" was back in the day (and I did my share of that when I was young and stupid). I honestly don't see why you felt the need to add this last paragraph. Was it "iDevices"? I just used it for convenience. Either way, the snark is totally unnecessary, your comment is better without it.
        halostatue 3y ago
        Partially correct because Linux is running under a sandbox and all applications within Linux are in that sandbox. My comment about "school systems and corporations" did sort of imply "managed"; there's not a public school system in the world that would give their students unmanaged Chromebooks. Some private schools might, but the private schools are also more likely to have it tightly controlled and install spyware because of the "threat of cyber-cheating" (I wish I were kidding: https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-pri...). My apologies on the snark — it’s too late to edit it, but I read your "iDevices" as snark itself, since most of this discussion has been populated by people who have reflexive anti-Apple stances with exactly no nuance on their stances, so I let my frustration get the better of me. Mea maxima culpa.
    - HDThoreaun 3y ago
      I dont enjoy being treated like an elementary schooler, and I dont see why apple should be allowed to do so against my wishes.
      - halostatue 3y ago
        Then don't buy Apple hardware. There are those of us who find Apple's walled garden approach preferable to having to (1) tweak everything all the time because we can't get audio working or (2) we have to run three different competing antivirus scanners that make our 2024 computer run like it was made in 1983 or (3) be stuck in Google's walled garden where even if you pay, you are still the product. Does Apple need to change things? Yes. But I — and I know that I’m not alone on this — happen to agree with Apple that the DMA changes requested will reduce overall security for customers. There may be worthwhile changes that happen because of the DMA, but the reduced security position is real.
        HDThoreaun 3y ago
        Or maybe you dont download 3rd party app stores. Nothing changes if you dont want it to. Apple makes a very good product, that doesnt mean they should be allowed to hamstring it anti competitively.
girvo 3y ago
It does have a large amount of malware too, though

johnnyanmac 3y ago

Motte and Bailey's also co-exist. But we know no one really lounges in the bailey when it's not requires.

natch 3y ago
What are those.