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For the same reason Trump has opened so many legal challenges in his trials. It's a stalling tactic. Every year Apple can continue their App Store business mono

by mil22 3y ago

For the same reason Trump has opened so many legal challenges in his trials. It's a stalling tactic. Every year Apple can continue their App Store business monopoly without adequate competition is another year Apple earns $100B (or whatever their profit is - Apple does not disclose the figures [1]). They are trying to delay any threat to that as long as possible. No doubt they have done their cost/benefit calculations very carefully, weighing the potential fines and legal fees against the revenue they will be able to keep earning this way, and they have decided this is the best way forward. [1] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-profitable-is-apples-app-store-even-a-landmark-antitrust-trial-couldnt-tell-us-11622224506 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-profitable-is-apples-a...

greedo 3y ago
Apple's profit is definitely public information since they're a publicly traded company. In 2023, they reported $97B in profit.
- mil22 3y ago
  If you can find specific numbers on Apple's profit from the App Store, I would be very interested to see them. Of course Apple's total profit is public information, but they don't break it down so specifically. The best I can find is that App Store revenue is on the order of $100B, but the profit margin has not been disclosed (though speculated by Epic to be ~80% [1]). [1] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-profitable-is-apples-app-store-even-a-landmark-antitrust-trial-couldnt-tell-us-11622224506 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-profitable-is-apples-a...
  - greedo 3y ago
    Considering that the Google bribe to Apple for search is $18B, I can't see the App Store profit margin being 80%. That would imply that Apple makes zero margin on all hardware and other services.
  - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
    Let's assume for the sake of argument that: • Apple makes 100% of its profit from the App Store. • This profit comes equally from the US, EU, China, and the entire rest of the world. (It doesn't, the EU is a smaller market.) • Half of EU users would stop using the App Store entirely if they were allowed to side-load. • Apple's keeps 75% of its revenue as profit. By my calculations, this would mean Apple's EU App Store monopoly is worth 9.375% of the company's worldwide revenue. Please let me know if I made an error in my math. Why is Apple willing to risk 10% of its worldwide revenue to protect 9.375% of its worldwide revenue? Okay, I guess maybe Apple thinks it's unlikely to be fined the maximum amount, and is willing to roll the dice. But I also chose ludicrously favorable numbers here.
    - wahnfrieden 3y ago
      More countries outside EU are evaluating imposing similar requirements. Apple sees more at stake here than EU's market
      - jll29 3y ago
        The EU is "leading in regulation", which means often, regulation (especially in the area of customer protection) is first introduced in Europe, then other jurisdiction follow that are at least "inspired" (think: lazy copy and paste of at least parts) by it. Example: https://news.bloomberglaw.com/tech-and-telecom-law/california-follows-europes-lead-on-usb-c-mandate-for-devices https://news.bloomberglaw.com/tech-and-telecom-law/californi... This can be a positive effect for the world overall, but it is also annoying that some EU politicians describe that as (and confuse it with) "innovation". As a European citizen, I approve of things like killing of cellphone roaming fees and forcing adapter uniformity (I wish they also enforced power plug uniformity across the EU's 27 member states).
- kmeisthax 3y ago
  Their profit? Yes. They are required to account for that by law. But they don't break that down by revenue stream in a way that would be useful. This is by design: Apple doesn't want people sniffing around and wondering what things would be like in a world where Apple had to sell their technology piecemeal. It'd be like demanding to know how much profit Apple made from selling macOS vs. Macintosh computers. Everything's one giant bundle, why calculate things separately? Are you trying to force us to unbundle shit?
  - anticensor 3y ago
    > why calculate things separately? Because they already are calculating all those things, just not disclosing them?
  - greedo 3y ago
    You can be assured that Apple internally knows the margins on everything they make as well as Services. I think that there's several reasons they don't disclose discrete sales figures and profit margins. This would give competitors a good idea of where to attack Apple.

by mil22 3y ago

greedo 3y ago

Apple's profit is definitely public information since they're a publicly traded company. In 2023, they reported $97B in profit.

mil22 3y ago
If you can find specific numbers on Apple's profit from the App Store, I would be very interested to see them. Of course Apple's total profit is public information, but they don't break it down so specifically. The best I can find is that App Store revenue is on the order of $100B, but the profit margin has not been disclosed (though speculated by Epic to be ~80% [1]). [1] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-profitable-is-apples-app-store-even-a-landmark-antitrust-trial-couldnt-tell-us-11622224506 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-profitable-is-apples-a...
- greedo 3y ago
  Considering that the Google bribe to Apple for search is $18B, I can't see the App Store profit margin being 80%. That would imply that Apple makes zero margin on all hardware and other services.
- Wowfunhappy 3y ago
  Let's assume for the sake of argument that: • Apple makes 100% of its profit from the App Store. • This profit comes equally from the US, EU, China, and the entire rest of the world. (It doesn't, the EU is a smaller market.) • Half of EU users would stop using the App Store entirely if they were allowed to side-load. • Apple's keeps 75% of its revenue as profit. By my calculations, this would mean Apple's EU App Store monopoly is worth 9.375% of the company's worldwide revenue. Please let me know if I made an error in my math. Why is Apple willing to risk 10% of its worldwide revenue to protect 9.375% of its worldwide revenue? Okay, I guess maybe Apple thinks it's unlikely to be fined the maximum amount, and is willing to roll the dice. But I also chose ludicrously favorable numbers here.
  - wahnfrieden 3y ago
    More countries outside EU are evaluating imposing similar requirements. Apple sees more at stake here than EU's market
    - jll29 3y ago
      The EU is "leading in regulation", which means often, regulation (especially in the area of customer protection) is first introduced in Europe, then other jurisdiction follow that are at least "inspired" (think: lazy copy and paste of at least parts) by it. Example: https://news.bloomberglaw.com/tech-and-telecom-law/california-follows-europes-lead-on-usb-c-mandate-for-devices https://news.bloomberglaw.com/tech-and-telecom-law/californi... This can be a positive effect for the world overall, but it is also annoying that some EU politicians describe that as (and confuse it with) "innovation". As a European citizen, I approve of things like killing of cellphone roaming fees and forcing adapter uniformity (I wish they also enforced power plug uniformity across the EU's 27 member states).
kmeisthax 3y ago
Their profit? Yes. They are required to account for that by law. But they don't break that down by revenue stream in a way that would be useful. This is by design: Apple doesn't want people sniffing around and wondering what things would be like in a world where Apple had to sell their technology piecemeal. It'd be like demanding to know how much profit Apple made from selling macOS vs. Macintosh computers. Everything's one giant bundle, why calculate things separately? Are you trying to force us to unbundle shit?
- anticensor 3y ago
  > why calculate things separately? Because they already are calculating all those things, just not disclosing them?
- greedo 3y ago
  You can be assured that Apple internally knows the margins on everything they make as well as Services. I think that there's several reasons they don't disclose discrete sales figures and profit margins. This would give competitors a good idea of where to attack Apple.