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I don’t like the idea of having N different app stores no matter how bad the one App Store is. Just having one App Store and no silly monetization rules would b

I don’t like the idea of having N different app stores no matter how bad the one App Store is. Just having one App Store and no silly monetization rules would be great. I download the Netflix app for $0 and my business with Netflix is done directly with them after that. And Netflix can pay Apple some reasonable fee for hosting and reviewing the apps themselves. Apple have already lost the AppStore they just haven’t realized it yet. They should try to rescue the 1 good store before the app market is fractured with side markets. Eventually it’ll affect the perception of their hardware and that’s a worse place for Apple than just losing the entire app tax.

thefz 3y ago
And now thanks to Apple's malicious compliance is going to be even worse for everyone
- alkonaut 3y ago
  The EU is luckily different from the US in terms of following the spirit of laws rather than using technical loopholes. Hopefully any attempt to be in malicious compliance should result in the same penalty as noncompliance.
mbs159 3y ago
So you also think that on Windows PCs, you should only be able to install programs from the Windows Store?
- kmlx 3y ago
  a bit of a silly comment. a PC is not a phone. a phone is something very personal, something you can lose very easily (and a lot of people do), something that you use all the time outside your home (on the street, on the bus, etc). a PC isn't that.
  - krthr 3y ago
    A phone is, in fact, a computer
- alkonaut 3y ago
  I think it would be a much better UX for 90% of users. But it would require the store to exist from the start so it contains all/most of the content. That never happened on windows.
diffeomorphism 3y ago
You could totally have one app store to rule them all (front end \neq repos). Also, this whole "fractured with side markets" sounds massively overblown. On the android side other app stores are allowed. Yet, almost nobody goes out of their way to add any app store that was not preinstalled. And those preinstalled at most include one by the phone manufacturer, i.e. apple in this case.
meowtimemania 3y ago
I really like the user experience of the app store as it is. I love that I can cancel any app subscription from 1 place. I understand some of the problems of the app store from the developer side and hope those change, but I like how it is as a user. I do wish progressive web apps were improved a bit.
- thefz 3y ago
  Nothing is preventing you from using the same app store in the future
- berkes 3y ago
  That means Apple can compete on merits, not through a monopoly. If they truly have a stellar experience, people would want to pay a premium for that even, and choose this option. What need is there, for you, that requires Apple to then hold on to their monopoly?
  - meowtimemania 3y ago
    I'm not sure! If I have the same cancel-any-subscription-from-ios-settings experience without the app store, then I would love that! I'd love it if I could cancel other things like spotify/netflix from that same ios settings screen.
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  I see the "app subscription in 1 place" point a lot, but what stops you from only ever enforcing that rule by yourself, as you're already doing now ? I assume that means you currently don't subscribe to anything Amazon provides, nor Netflix, nor game services, nor newsletters, nor coffee subscriptions etc. A few more subscription mechanisms appearing in the world would not make a difference, do they ? I anything you'd have more option to choose which basket you put all your eggs in.
  - bobbylarrybobby 3y ago
    If you've ever tried to cancel Amazon Prime through amazon.com, you'll understand the value that Apple provides through its App Store subscriptions.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
FateOfNations 3y ago
The new alternative business terms basically set that up. The "reasonable fee" is €0.50/install plus 10% of recurring revenue for customers acquired through via the Apple App Store.
- alkonaut 3y ago
  The reasonable fee if you ask me would be only to cover their own cost. So the same fee for Spotify and Netflix as for my own combined Todo/flappy bird clone app.
MiddleEndian 3y ago
N should just be 0. Why have an app store middle man at all? You could just download your Netflix app from Netflix's website. Problem solved. When you look up a program on Google search, you pretty much always get the right result. When you search for something on an app store, you get a bunch of spam mixed in. It's a worse experience.
- acdha 3y ago
  > When you look up a program on Google search, you pretty much always get the right result This is dangerously untrue for many categories of app. Google plays a game of whack-a-mole trying to stop the worst malware but it’s far from perfect and once you’re in more dubious categories like adware they pretty don’t bother. That’s the problem here: it’d be nice to be able to install Netflix from Netflix.com but making it that easy means that millions of people will get something with bundled adware, spyware, etc. because they didn’t realize what they were installing - or because it wasn’t installed by them but their controlling spouse, kid who likes games, etc. The long-term answer for this will involve better OS sandboxes but as we’ve seen that’s a tough thing to get right and will inevitably limit what people can do or be abused (e.g. taking away direct access to other applications means attackers now try to convince people to enable assistive features). Now, maybe that freedom is worth the risk. Personally I think it is but I also know that statistically the rate of people I know/support getting their credit cards stolen, being used in a botnet, or having their PC become unusable dropped to zero when those people switched to iOS or ChromeOS so I certainly can’t say there isn’t a solid argument that the general public cannot use general purpose computers safely.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    > The long-term answer for this will involve better OS sandboxes Well, this is exactly it. iOS should have redundant security policies that don't take fallible App Store reviews for granted anyways. Apple didn't really account for this, presumably to hedge the validity of a single App Store. Now they're acting like the victim when they gave up proactive solutions to chase more money. I can't empathize with that logic, even if they drag users into the regulatory bear trap with them. Apple has every opportunity to make things right. Sideloading works fine on Android (or, Mac); getting it "right" is eminently an implementation problem. It would be incredibly sad for Apple to fight down this legislation through bad faith compliance and self-sabotage. Not unexpected or poor entertainment, but very sad and unnecessary.

thefz 3y ago

And now thanks to Apple's malicious compliance is going to be even worse for everyone

alkonaut 3y ago
The EU is luckily different from the US in terms of following the spirit of laws rather than using technical loopholes. Hopefully any attempt to be in malicious compliance should result in the same penalty as noncompliance.

mbs159 3y ago

So you also think that on Windows PCs, you should only be able to install programs from the Windows Store?

kmlx 3y ago
a bit of a silly comment. a PC is not a phone. a phone is something very personal, something you can lose very easily (and a lot of people do), something that you use all the time outside your home (on the street, on the bus, etc). a PC isn't that.
- krthr 3y ago
  A phone is, in fact, a computer
alkonaut 3y ago
I think it would be a much better UX for 90% of users. But it would require the store to exist from the start so it contains all/most of the content. That never happened on windows.

diffeomorphism 3y ago

You could totally have one app store to rule them all (front end \neq repos). Also, this whole "fractured with side markets" sounds massively overblown. On the android side other app stores are allowed. Yet, almost nobody goes out of their way to add any app store that was not preinstalled. And those preinstalled at most include one by the phone manufacturer, i.e. apple in this case.

meowtimemania 3y ago

I really like the user experience of the app store as it is. I love that I can cancel any app subscription from 1 place. I understand some of the problems of the app store from the developer side and hope those change, but I like how it is as a user. I do wish progressive web apps were improved a bit.

thefz 3y ago
Nothing is preventing you from using the same app store in the future
berkes 3y ago
That means Apple can compete on merits, not through a monopoly. If they truly have a stellar experience, people would want to pay a premium for that even, and choose this option. What need is there, for you, that requires Apple to then hold on to their monopoly?
- meowtimemania 3y ago
  I'm not sure! If I have the same cancel-any-subscription-from-ios-settings experience without the app store, then I would love that! I'd love it if I could cancel other things like spotify/netflix from that same ios settings screen.
makeitdouble 3y ago
I see the "app subscription in 1 place" point a lot, but what stops you from only ever enforcing that rule by yourself, as you're already doing now ? I assume that means you currently don't subscribe to anything Amazon provides, nor Netflix, nor game services, nor newsletters, nor coffee subscriptions etc. A few more subscription mechanisms appearing in the world would not make a difference, do they ? I anything you'd have more option to choose which basket you put all your eggs in.
- bobbylarrybobby 3y ago
  If you've ever tried to cancel Amazon Prime through amazon.com, you'll understand the value that Apple provides through its App Store subscriptions.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

FateOfNations 3y ago

The new alternative business terms basically set that up. The "reasonable fee" is €0.50/install plus 10% of recurring revenue for customers acquired through via the Apple App Store.

alkonaut 3y ago
The reasonable fee if you ask me would be only to cover their own cost. So the same fee for Spotify and Netflix as for my own combined Todo/flappy bird clone app.

MiddleEndian 3y ago

N should just be 0. Why have an app store middle man at all? You could just download your Netflix app from Netflix's website. Problem solved. When you look up a program on Google search, you pretty much always get the right result. When you search for something on an app store, you get a bunch of spam mixed in. It's a worse experience.

acdha 3y ago
> When you look up a program on Google search, you pretty much always get the right result This is dangerously untrue for many categories of app. Google plays a game of whack-a-mole trying to stop the worst malware but it’s far from perfect and once you’re in more dubious categories like adware they pretty don’t bother. That’s the problem here: it’d be nice to be able to install Netflix from Netflix.com but making it that easy means that millions of people will get something with bundled adware, spyware, etc. because they didn’t realize what they were installing - or because it wasn’t installed by them but their controlling spouse, kid who likes games, etc. The long-term answer for this will involve better OS sandboxes but as we’ve seen that’s a tough thing to get right and will inevitably limit what people can do or be abused (e.g. taking away direct access to other applications means attackers now try to convince people to enable assistive features). Now, maybe that freedom is worth the risk. Personally I think it is but I also know that statistically the rate of people I know/support getting their credit cards stolen, being used in a botnet, or having their PC become unusable dropped to zero when those people switched to iOS or ChromeOS so I certainly can’t say there isn’t a solid argument that the general public cannot use general purpose computers safely.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  > The long-term answer for this will involve better OS sandboxes Well, this is exactly it. iOS should have redundant security policies that don't take fallible App Store reviews for granted anyways. Apple didn't really account for this, presumably to hedge the validity of a single App Store. Now they're acting like the victim when they gave up proactive solutions to chase more money. I can't empathize with that logic, even if they drag users into the regulatory bear trap with them. Apple has every opportunity to make things right. Sideloading works fine on Android (or, Mac); getting it "right" is eminently an implementation problem. It would be incredibly sad for Apple to fight down this legislation through bad faith compliance and self-sabotage. Not unexpected or poor entertainment, but very sad and unnecessary.