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iOS developer here. As long as you make < $1M/year their cut is 15%, which is absolutely worth it considering the quality of the App Store and payment experienc

by orasis 3y ago

iOS developer here. As long as you make < $1M/year their cut is 15%, which is absolutely worth it considering the quality of the App Store and payment experience and the fact that iOS users actually pay unlike Android. When I hit that 30% fee, however, I’m not going to be so stoked.

Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago
> When I hit that 30% fee, however, I’m not going to be so stoked. One could entertain the idea that some real and viable competition to AppStore could really improve things for both developers and users. /s
spywaregorilla 3y ago
it is worth it only because they forbid alternatives
- rollcat 3y ago
  Consider the context. There are alternatives (Android, and everyone else in the mobile space that tried and didn't make it), and as orasis pointed out, the users there aren't that keen on making purchases.
  - spywaregorilla 3y ago
    The valuable target is "iphone users" not "app store users". They're only the same because apple forbids competition with itself.
    - rollcat 3y ago
      > The valuable target is "iphone users" not "app store users". As an actual "iPhone user", I personally am going to be extremely reluctant to install things from outside the app store, let alone pay for anything. I don't think Apple's rules or the 30% cut are fair, but they did something nobody else in that space seems to be able to: they built trust. > They're only the same because apple forbids competition with itself. The competition is either dead, or is Google. If you'd like to blame anyone, you should blame Apple and Google for working together to establish an oligopoly.
      - guax 3y ago
        25% cheaper apps would entice A LOT of users to trust another store with a big name behind like Amazon or Google.
        rollcat 3y ago
        I don't think Apple will let go of taking some sort of a cut (and seeing where things are going, they will fight for each and every % with their claws and fangs) - and I think in all fairness it is justified to an extent, building and maintaining the platform has an inherent cost and in worst case they will somehow pass this cost onto their users. Alright, got an iPhone? $10/mo, or you can't install any apps at all. I don't think a hypothetical Amazon, Google, Meta, or Epic store for iOS won't take a significant cut of their own - after all, again, maintaining a platform is work, and they won't do it pro bono (or they will, somehow again at the user's expense, see how Meta loooves to abuse their users as if they were the products). I'm just speculating based on what seems to be Apple's apparent priorities, they tend to put Apple first, users second, third parties third; while other companies seem to have the latter two swapped around.
        orasis 3y ago
        We wouldn’t drop our prices for an alternate store - we already know the user’s willingness to pay - we would either increase our margin or increase our ad spend at the same margin. The big winners here would be developers and Google/Facebook.
        spywaregorilla 3y ago
        Ok and where is that ad spend going to direct people to go? To the store with the 30% tax or the store with the 5% tax? You say you wouldn't drop your prices because you know what people are willing to pay as a counter argument to saying that lowering prices would incentivize people to shop at other stores while also stating that selling at other stores would increase your margin. Well, sounds like if you want to get that bigger margin, you should lower your prices to attract people to the lower tax store.
      - 3y ago
- bloppe 3y ago
  This is what people struggle so hard to get. You wouldn't say 15% was "worth it" if you could get the exact same quality for 3%.
  - barkerja 3y ago
    But could you get the same user base?
    - bloppe 3y ago
      At least you can try
  - orasis 3y ago
    Sure I would like higher margins, but I’m running a business, and if the rent I’m paying is worth the location then it’s worth it.
    - spywaregorilla 3y ago
      A business owner arguing against competition in his suppliers is the dumbest thing "worth it" implies an ignorance of opportunity costs
    - bloppe 3y ago
      Of course. But if it's not, you shouldn't be stuck.
- sureglymop 3y ago
  Exactly. To give an example, on macOS there is the mac app store. But over time other distribution platforms such as SetApp [0] have emerged. But developers can actually enlist their apps in both of these "stores" (setapp is subscription based) which probably increases their potential revenue. [0]: https://setapp.com/ https://setapp.com/
shmatt 3y ago
I know the Android vs. iOS conversion rates first hand for many years. Working for a large US fashion company that had >50% of transactions online, the conversion rates for Android were comically low. I have a feeling there will be a similar split with iOS users who are installing 3rd party app stores vs. iOS users who choose to stay locked in
zerr 3y ago
> the quality of the App Store What does this mean? Last time I checked, the App Store was full of trash, similarly to Play Store.
d0100 3y ago
> the fact that iOS users actually pay unlike Android That's not related to store quality, but of the users purchasing power
- KerrAvon 3y ago
  From the developer perspective, that is a big component of store quality.

by orasis 3y ago

Andrew_nenakhov 3y ago

> When I hit that 30% fee, however, I’m not going to be so stoked. One could entertain the idea that some real and viable competition to AppStore could really improve things for both developers and users. /s

spywaregorilla 3y ago

it is worth it only because they forbid alternatives

rollcat 3y ago
Consider the context. There are alternatives (Android, and everyone else in the mobile space that tried and didn't make it), and as orasis pointed out, the users there aren't that keen on making purchases.
- spywaregorilla 3y ago
  The valuable target is "iphone users" not "app store users". They're only the same because apple forbids competition with itself.
  - rollcat 3y ago
    > The valuable target is "iphone users" not "app store users". As an actual "iPhone user", I personally am going to be extremely reluctant to install things from outside the app store, let alone pay for anything. I don't think Apple's rules or the 30% cut are fair, but they did something nobody else in that space seems to be able to: they built trust. > They're only the same because apple forbids competition with itself. The competition is either dead, or is Google. If you'd like to blame anyone, you should blame Apple and Google for working together to establish an oligopoly.
    - guax 3y ago
      25% cheaper apps would entice A LOT of users to trust another store with a big name behind like Amazon or Google.
      - rollcat 3y ago
        I don't think Apple will let go of taking some sort of a cut (and seeing where things are going, they will fight for each and every % with their claws and fangs) - and I think in all fairness it is justified to an extent, building and maintaining the platform has an inherent cost and in worst case they will somehow pass this cost onto their users. Alright, got an iPhone? $10/mo, or you can't install any apps at all. I don't think a hypothetical Amazon, Google, Meta, or Epic store for iOS won't take a significant cut of their own - after all, again, maintaining a platform is work, and they won't do it pro bono (or they will, somehow again at the user's expense, see how Meta loooves to abuse their users as if they were the products). I'm just speculating based on what seems to be Apple's apparent priorities, they tend to put Apple first, users second, third parties third; while other companies seem to have the latter two swapped around.
      - orasis 3y ago
        We wouldn’t drop our prices for an alternate store - we already know the user’s willingness to pay - we would either increase our margin or increase our ad spend at the same margin. The big winners here would be developers and Google/Facebook.
        spywaregorilla 3y ago
        Ok and where is that ad spend going to direct people to go? To the store with the 30% tax or the store with the 5% tax? You say you wouldn't drop your prices because you know what people are willing to pay as a counter argument to saying that lowering prices would incentivize people to shop at other stores while also stating that selling at other stores would increase your margin. Well, sounds like if you want to get that bigger margin, you should lower your prices to attract people to the lower tax store.
    - 3y ago
bloppe 3y ago
This is what people struggle so hard to get. You wouldn't say 15% was "worth it" if you could get the exact same quality for 3%.
- barkerja 3y ago
  But could you get the same user base?
  - bloppe 3y ago
    At least you can try
- orasis 3y ago
  Sure I would like higher margins, but I’m running a business, and if the rent I’m paying is worth the location then it’s worth it.
  - spywaregorilla 3y ago
    A business owner arguing against competition in his suppliers is the dumbest thing "worth it" implies an ignorance of opportunity costs
  - bloppe 3y ago
    Of course. But if it's not, you shouldn't be stuck.
sureglymop 3y ago
Exactly. To give an example, on macOS there is the mac app store. But over time other distribution platforms such as SetApp [0] have emerged. But developers can actually enlist their apps in both of these "stores" (setapp is subscription based) which probably increases their potential revenue. [0]: https://setapp.com/ https://setapp.com/

shmatt 3y ago

I know the Android vs. iOS conversion rates first hand for many years. Working for a large US fashion company that had >50% of transactions online, the conversion rates for Android were comically low. I have a feeling there will be a similar split with iOS users who are installing 3rd party app stores vs. iOS users who choose to stay locked in

zerr 3y ago

> the quality of the App Store What does this mean? Last time I checked, the App Store was full of trash, similarly to Play Store.

d0100 3y ago

> the fact that iOS users actually pay unlike Android That's not related to store quality, but of the users purchasing power

KerrAvon 3y ago
From the developer perspective, that is a big component of store quality.