4 ms·

The terminal metaphor isn't so great either; in fact I think it's miserable, compared to the workbook-type approach provided by something like Mathematica from

by jrabone 14y ago

The terminal metaphor isn't so great either; in fact I think it's miserable, compared to the workbook-type approach provided by something like Mathematica from 15 years ago (last time I worked somewhere that could afford it) I find it depressing that all command line interfaces aren't like that. Also, in-band signalling, escape characters, magic select() timing loops to distinguish from "real" input, hackarounds for the fact that the original terminal was a separate computer and had local and remote modes and some keys never sent anything... is that metaphor REALLY still relevant?

Produce 14y ago
I've never used Mathematica and can't find any good comprehensive explanations of the workbook paradigm. From the little I have found, it's basically a text editor interface where you can execute previously typed commands by hitting a shortcut and the output is appended below the command, while still retaining the ability to move all over the page, right?
- jrabone 14y ago
  Pretty much - with folding and other niceties. Have a look at http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/tutorial/UsingANotebookInterface.html http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/tutorial/UsingANote... for a brief overview, and http://www.wolfram.com/technology/guide/SymbolicInterfaceConstruction/ http://www.wolfram.com/technology/guide/SymbolicInterfaceCon... for more information about the interface possibilities. Also check out http://www.wolfram.com/cdf/ http://www.wolfram.com/cdf/ for the more general attempt to make a dynamic document standard. I don't know how successful that's been.
  - Produce 14y ago
    So those controls in the last link can be displayed in the workbook as views on command output? I've been toying with a similar idea for a while now - wasn't aware that there were already implementations of it. I think we're going to witness/participate in a paradigm change in the near future. Thanks for all the links.
ajross 14y ago
Your second paragraph is confusing what I was trying to distinguish as "implementation" from "metaphor". Yes, I agree all that is a mess (though good luck trying to fix it -- won't ever happen). But it's a tolerable mess, because it enables the command line. And your first point is just verifiably wrong. If there were truly better workflow metaphors for software development, you'd think at least some of the best hackers would have discovered it and moved to it at some point in the last four (!) decades. Instead, all of the most productive developers in our subculture (almost quite literally every single one of them) work at a command line. They haven't moved elsewhere, because it won't happen, because your thesis is simply incorrect: no better metaphors have been discovered.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

by jrabone 14y ago

Produce 14y ago

I've never used Mathematica and can't find any good comprehensive explanations of the workbook paradigm. From the little I have found, it's basically a text editor interface where you can execute previously typed commands by hitting a shortcut and the output is appended below the command, while still retaining the ability to move all over the page, right?

jrabone 14y ago
Pretty much - with folding and other niceties. Have a look at http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/tutorial/UsingANotebookInterface.html http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/tutorial/UsingANote... for a brief overview, and http://www.wolfram.com/technology/guide/SymbolicInterfaceConstruction/ http://www.wolfram.com/technology/guide/SymbolicInterfaceCon... for more information about the interface possibilities. Also check out http://www.wolfram.com/cdf/ http://www.wolfram.com/cdf/ for the more general attempt to make a dynamic document standard. I don't know how successful that's been.
- Produce 14y ago
  So those controls in the last link can be displayed in the workbook as views on command output? I've been toying with a similar idea for a while now - wasn't aware that there were already implementations of it. I think we're going to witness/participate in a paradigm change in the near future. Thanks for all the links.

ajross 14y ago

Your second paragraph is confusing what I was trying to distinguish as "implementation" from "metaphor". Yes, I agree all that is a mess (though good luck trying to fix it -- won't ever happen). But it's a tolerable mess, because it enables the command line. And your first point is just verifiably wrong. If there were truly better workflow metaphors for software development, you'd think at least some of the best hackers would have discovered it and moved to it at some point in the last four (!) decades. Instead, all of the most productive developers in our subculture (almost quite literally every single one of them) work at a command line. They haven't moved elsewhere, because it won't happen, because your thesis is simply incorrect: no better metaphors have been discovered.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]