4 ms·

The problem is no one has made a smartphone with that open model. Just as no one has made a video game console with that open model. Anyone is free to enter th

by graeme 3y ago

The problem is no one has made a smartphone with that open model. Just as no one has made a video game console with that open model. Anyone is free to enter the hardware market with an open platform. There are some devices for sale which allow this. But they're enormously unpopular.

latortuga 3y ago
Arguably the Steam Deck is a video game console with that open model. It gets fuzzy though because an open video game console looks like a general purpose computer.
- baq 3y ago
  ‘Looks like’ is a bit of an understatement ;)
rajamaka 3y ago
You are right, the smartphone industry is a monopoly and should be regulated as such.
grishka 3y ago
> The problem is no one has made a smartphone with that open model. Android is fully open. No one is making you use Google services. You can, in fact, buy a Pixel and simply uninstall the Play Store. As a developer, you can distribute your app without any Google involvement whatsoever.
- spookie 3y ago
  Well, it's important to make the distinction between the Play Store and Google Services (the software). Plenty of things _depend_ on Google Services, some of them you have no option, like bank apps. It's true however that you can use microG to replace Google Services, but even then some banks will block your account upon doing that (happened to me). Granted, this really is a completely different point to what you were discussing, and I do agree with you. But, if we want truly open ecosystems, we need standards that ensure the authenticity of the user. Unfortunately, that gets distopian fast. I really don't know what to think of all of this.
rstat1 3y ago
Really? There are tons of ways to get apps on an Android device that don't involve a store charging ridiculous fees.
- graeme 3y ago
  Certainly, but how many software businesses are built on non-play store android apps? There just isn't that much of a market there. Contrast with, say, Adobe, which makes computer software not distributed through any App store and is a $278 billion company.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  And how many people are going to actually do that?
  - kivle 3y ago
    Samsung phones come with a Samsung store in addition to Google Play for instance. All of Samsungs software go through their own store, and they also sell apps on it.
    - ericmay 3y ago
      So instead of "opening up" the iPhone if customers really care about the multiple app stores feature they could buy the phone with that feature correct? It's not really any different in my mind than phones with more battery life, a better camera, or any other product mix.
      - squeaky-clean 3y ago
        In general I agree with you, I don't want my phone to be a general purpose computer. But the situation here is that there is now an actual law mandating that no, you're not to allowed host an app store on your phone OS without allowing alternative app stores. For an exaggerated analogy, you can't make a car without seatbelts and tell consumers that if they value safety they should purchase a different brand of car.
fsflover 3y ago
GNU/Linux phones exist: Librem 5 and Pinephone. They're based on free drivers and don't prevent you from installing any OS.
- spookie 3y ago
  I hope those get more mature and stable, I do have one but it's kind of a mess to have things not break on you. Updates corruption and all. This is on the Pinephone Pro btw.
  - fsflover 3y ago
    Pinephone software is written by volunteers. Librem 5 is more stable: https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-daily-driven-in-professional-use-success/22303/40 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-daily-driven-in-profession...
    - techniquetech 3y ago
      There's also Ubuntu Touch which I hope gathers steam. I installed it on an old Pixel 3a I had lying around mostly for fun, in much the same way I did for GalliumOS install on an old HP Chromebook.
      - fsflover 3y ago
        I personally prefer SXMo.
- azinman2 3y ago
  > There are some devices for sale which allow this. But they're enormously unpopular.
  - fsflover 3y ago
    > The problem is no one has made a smartphone with that open model.
- 3y ago
nottorp 3y ago
Android... before that, PalmOS...

by graeme 3y ago

latortuga 3y ago

Arguably the Steam Deck is a video game console with that open model. It gets fuzzy though because an open video game console looks like a general purpose computer.

baq 3y ago
‘Looks like’ is a bit of an understatement ;)

rajamaka 3y ago

You are right, the smartphone industry is a monopoly and should be regulated as such.

grishka 3y ago

> The problem is no one has made a smartphone with that open model. Android is fully open. No one is making you use Google services. You can, in fact, buy a Pixel and simply uninstall the Play Store. As a developer, you can distribute your app without any Google involvement whatsoever.

spookie 3y ago
Well, it's important to make the distinction between the Play Store and Google Services (the software). Plenty of things _depend_ on Google Services, some of them you have no option, like bank apps. It's true however that you can use microG to replace Google Services, but even then some banks will block your account upon doing that (happened to me). Granted, this really is a completely different point to what you were discussing, and I do agree with you. But, if we want truly open ecosystems, we need standards that ensure the authenticity of the user. Unfortunately, that gets distopian fast. I really don't know what to think of all of this.

rstat1 3y ago

Really? There are tons of ways to get apps on an Android device that don't involve a store charging ridiculous fees.

graeme 3y ago
Certainly, but how many software businesses are built on non-play store android apps? There just isn't that much of a market there. Contrast with, say, Adobe, which makes computer software not distributed through any App store and is a $278 billion company.
scarface_74 3y ago
And how many people are going to actually do that?
- kivle 3y ago
  Samsung phones come with a Samsung store in addition to Google Play for instance. All of Samsungs software go through their own store, and they also sell apps on it.
  - ericmay 3y ago
    So instead of "opening up" the iPhone if customers really care about the multiple app stores feature they could buy the phone with that feature correct? It's not really any different in my mind than phones with more battery life, a better camera, or any other product mix.
    - squeaky-clean 3y ago
      In general I agree with you, I don't want my phone to be a general purpose computer. But the situation here is that there is now an actual law mandating that no, you're not to allowed host an app store on your phone OS without allowing alternative app stores. For an exaggerated analogy, you can't make a car without seatbelts and tell consumers that if they value safety they should purchase a different brand of car.

fsflover 3y ago

GNU/Linux phones exist: Librem 5 and Pinephone. They're based on free drivers and don't prevent you from installing any OS.

spookie 3y ago
I hope those get more mature and stable, I do have one but it's kind of a mess to have things not break on you. Updates corruption and all. This is on the Pinephone Pro btw.
- fsflover 3y ago
  Pinephone software is written by volunteers. Librem 5 is more stable: https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-daily-driven-in-professional-use-success/22303/40 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-daily-driven-in-profession...
  - techniquetech 3y ago
    There's also Ubuntu Touch which I hope gathers steam. I installed it on an old Pixel 3a I had lying around mostly for fun, in much the same way I did for GalliumOS install on an old HP Chromebook.
    - fsflover 3y ago
      I personally prefer SXMo.
azinman2 3y ago
> There are some devices for sale which allow this. But they're enormously unpopular.
- fsflover 3y ago
  > The problem is no one has made a smartphone with that open model.
3y ago

nottorp 3y ago

Android... before that, PalmOS...