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I think you may be missing part of what the GP is saying: the concern isn't (primarily) that an alternative App Store will overall become more popular than Appl

I think you may be missing part of what the GP is saying: the concern isn't (primarily) that an alternative App Store will overall become more popular than Apple's. It's that specific apps like Facebook will create their own App Stores whose primary purpose is to distribute their one or small number of apps without the restrictions Apple places on privacy. So the Facebook app (and Instagram, WhatsApp, and whatever else Facebook owns these days) would be able to collect as much data as the OS itself allows, without any kind of warnings before install. It could potentially even use private APIs of some sort to bypass Apple's OS-level permissions dialogs and collect data without even asking the user first—it's unclear, at this point, to what extent Apple would be able to police this sort of behavior from motivated bad actors like Facebook when they're not being distributed through Apple's App Store.

jamil7 3y ago
Couple of things. iOS is sandboxed so they can’t do anything outside of the context of that app. To use any APIs that would require a permission dialogue you have to make a request to get a handle on them which only happens after a user grants permission, you can’t just reach into these. This is baked into the OS. Apps like the ones you’re talking about already hoover up is much data as possible in this context. iOS itself is actually really good at this and can be improved and hardened further, Apple wants you to believe it’s somehow their review process and strict distribution channel that makes this possible.
- nodamage 3y ago
  Sandboxing insufficiently addresses this problem as permissions can be granted by the user for legitimate purposes and then once granted they could be abused to violate user privacy.
  - jamil7 3y ago
    Yes, but this can already happen for an app in the App Store.
    - nodamage 3y ago
      The key difference of course is the App Store can take direct action against that app in such a scenario.
      - jamil7 3y ago
        I guess I'm struggling to see how there's any difference here, can you give an example?
        nodamage 3y ago
        I'm quite not sure what you're asking for an example of?
colinmorelli 3y ago
Yeah I understood that part. My argument is that Facebook would likely lose a lot of users if they forced all users to download Facebook via their App Store. There is still an incentive for them to use Apple’s. But beside that point, Facebook has been able to force side loading on Android for years and still distributes via the Play Store, so that’s probably at least some evidence that they believe that distribution channel to be worthwhile.

jamil7 3y ago

Couple of things. iOS is sandboxed so they can’t do anything outside of the context of that app. To use any APIs that would require a permission dialogue you have to make a request to get a handle on them which only happens after a user grants permission, you can’t just reach into these. This is baked into the OS. Apps like the ones you’re talking about already hoover up is much data as possible in this context. iOS itself is actually really good at this and can be improved and hardened further, Apple wants you to believe it’s somehow their review process and strict distribution channel that makes this possible.

nodamage 3y ago
Sandboxing insufficiently addresses this problem as permissions can be granted by the user for legitimate purposes and then once granted they could be abused to violate user privacy.
- jamil7 3y ago
  Yes, but this can already happen for an app in the App Store.
  - nodamage 3y ago
    The key difference of course is the App Store can take direct action against that app in such a scenario.
    - jamil7 3y ago
      I guess I'm struggling to see how there's any difference here, can you give an example?
      - nodamage 3y ago
        I'm quite not sure what you're asking for an example of?

colinmorelli 3y ago

Yeah I understood that part. My argument is that Facebook would likely lose a lot of users if they forced all users to download Facebook via their App Store. There is still an incentive for them to use Apple’s. But beside that point, Facebook has been able to force side loading on Android for years and still distributes via the Play Store, so that’s probably at least some evidence that they believe that distribution channel to be worthwhile.