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Why did she believe that? I like to believe are politicians aren’t completely insane so what pseudo/bad whatever studies led her to believe vaccines cause menta

Why did she believe that? I like to believe are politicians aren’t completely insane so what pseudo/bad whatever studies led her to believe vaccines cause mental retardation?

ceejayoz 3y ago
It's incredibly charitable of you to assume this was based on some sort of good-faith investigation of reputable medical research on her part.
- ericmcer 3y ago
  Well there is research around it, it isn’t robust enough to make stupid claims like that, but you could make a decent case that older vaccines contained things (Thimerosal) which could be causing problems. Maybe she doesn’t understand most new ones don’t?
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    > you could make a decent case that older vaccines contained things (Thimerosal) which could be causing problems No, not really; there's no case to be made there. Long and conclusively debunked, and the removal of it from most vaccinations didn't change autism etc. rates at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_and_vaccines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_and_vaccines > Maybe she doesn’t understand most new ones don’t? Little in Michele Bachmann's career gives me reason to give her that much benefit of the doubt.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    If you don’t understand such things, that’s fine, so long as you keep your ignorance to yourself. If you don’t understand such things and make unsubstantiated, incorrect claims on a national stage as a presidential candidate, I have a lot less tolerance.
cmrdporcupine 3y ago
Before the COVID vaccine skeptics, this one was a common drum that anti-vaxxers were beating on.
netsharc 3y ago
As Winston said, "If there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll believe anything you say.": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFX4fmldZFs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFX4fmldZFs
- ericmcer 3y ago
  Who makes money off people not getting vaccinated?
  - meepmorp 3y ago
    Big Disease, obviously.
  - 98codes 3y ago
    Mortuaries?
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    Plenty of people. In this case, it's pandering for votes/donations, but it's frequently to sell some alternative miracle cure or supplement. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/05/12/993615185/for-some-anti-vaccine-advocates-misinformation-is-part-of-a-business https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/05/12/9936151... > That selling can be big business. One of the leading anti-vaccine advocates, Joseph Mercola, is believed to bring in millions each year through his companies, which sell an array of branded natural supplements, beauty products and even pet supplies.
    - logicchains 3y ago
      If he only brings in millions, he's being trounced by the pharmaceutical companies that bring in billions. From a product that it's mandatory for children in some states to take, and for which pharmaceutical manufacturers are given special legal protection from liability. The perfect business model.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
chimeracoder 3y ago
> Why did she believe that? I like to believe are politicians aren’t completely insane I'd hope that any appreciable amount of time spent looking into Michele Bachmann would disabuse you entirely of the notion that the presumption of good faith is appropriate for all politicians.
logicchains 3y ago
Even one of the original developers of the vaccine questioned the benefits: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gardasil-researcher-speaks-out/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gardasil-researcher-speaks-out/ . In VAERS post-market data there are more issues associated with Gardasil than any other vaccine prior to the covid vaccines. You just don't hear about it because pharmaceutical companies spend an incredible amount of money on advertisement and lobbying.
- magicalist 3y ago
  > Even one of the original developers of the vaccine questioned the benefits You mean "She says data available for Gardasil shows that it lasts five years; there is no data showing that it remains effective beyond five years." well, there wasn't any 5+ years data in 2009. Weird that when this comes up in the antivaxxer catechisms it's always this story from 2009 and never Dr. Harper's 15 years of work since then firmly establishing the efficacy, safety, and longevity of the vaccine, and setting up vaccination and screening programs world wide to hopefully eliminate cervical cancer within the next few decades.
- kstrauser 3y ago
  How do the adverse reaction rates compare to the negative effects of the HPV that it prevents? Without those numbers, your claim is unhelpful. For instance, HPV causes about 37,000 cases of cancer each year: https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/hpv/statistics/cases.htm https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/hpv/statistics/cases.htm That works out to about 1 in 9,000 Americans. What are the rates of bad reactions to Gardasil that are worse than cancer? According to the CDC, at https://www.cdc.gov/hpv/hcp/vaccine-safety-data.html https://www.cdc.gov/hpv/hcp/vaccine-safety-data.html, "Approximately 28 million doses of Gardasil 9 distributed in the United States; 7,244 reports of adverse events (AEs); 97% of AEs classified as non-serious and 3% classified as serious" 3% of 7,244 is 217. 28,000,000 / 217 is one serious adverse reaction per 129,000 recipients, or 1/14th as common as HPV-related cancer. In other words, if you care about your health, you're 14x better off getting Gardasil than waiting to see if you get cancer from having HPV.
function_seven 3y ago
I believe the real reason she was against it was a widespread belief that HPV vaccination—considered a sexual health thing—was tantamount to encouraging promiscuity among recipients. Her stated reasons were bullshit smokescreens.

Why did she believe that? I like to believe are politicians aren’t completely insane so what pseudo/bad whatever studies led her to believe vaccines cause mental retardation?

ceejayoz 3y ago

It's incredibly charitable of you to assume this was based on some sort of good-faith investigation of reputable medical research on her part.

ericmcer 3y ago
Well there is research around it, it isn’t robust enough to make stupid claims like that, but you could make a decent case that older vaccines contained things (Thimerosal) which could be causing problems. Maybe she doesn’t understand most new ones don’t?
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  > you could make a decent case that older vaccines contained things (Thimerosal) which could be causing problems No, not really; there's no case to be made there. Long and conclusively debunked, and the removal of it from most vaccinations didn't change autism etc. rates at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_and_vaccines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_and_vaccines > Maybe she doesn’t understand most new ones don’t? Little in Michele Bachmann's career gives me reason to give her that much benefit of the doubt.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  If you don’t understand such things, that’s fine, so long as you keep your ignorance to yourself. If you don’t understand such things and make unsubstantiated, incorrect claims on a national stage as a presidential candidate, I have a lot less tolerance.

cmrdporcupine 3y ago

Before the COVID vaccine skeptics, this one was a common drum that anti-vaxxers were beating on.

netsharc 3y ago

As Winston said, "If there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll believe anything you say.": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFX4fmldZFs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFX4fmldZFs

ericmcer 3y ago
Who makes money off people not getting vaccinated?
- meepmorp 3y ago
  Big Disease, obviously.
- 98codes 3y ago
  Mortuaries?
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  Plenty of people. In this case, it's pandering for votes/donations, but it's frequently to sell some alternative miracle cure or supplement. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/05/12/993615185/for-some-anti-vaccine-advocates-misinformation-is-part-of-a-business https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/05/12/9936151... > That selling can be big business. One of the leading anti-vaccine advocates, Joseph Mercola, is believed to bring in millions each year through his companies, which sell an array of branded natural supplements, beauty products and even pet supplies.
  - logicchains 3y ago
    If he only brings in millions, he's being trounced by the pharmaceutical companies that bring in billions. From a product that it's mandatory for children in some states to take, and for which pharmaceutical manufacturers are given special legal protection from liability. The perfect business model.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago

chimeracoder 3y ago

> Why did she believe that? I like to believe are politicians aren’t completely insane I'd hope that any appreciable amount of time spent looking into Michele Bachmann would disabuse you entirely of the notion that the presumption of good faith is appropriate for all politicians.

logicchains 3y ago

Even one of the original developers of the vaccine questioned the benefits: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gardasil-researcher-speaks-out/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gardasil-researcher-speaks-out/ . In VAERS post-market data there are more issues associated with Gardasil than any other vaccine prior to the covid vaccines. You just don't hear about it because pharmaceutical companies spend an incredible amount of money on advertisement and lobbying.

magicalist 3y ago
> Even one of the original developers of the vaccine questioned the benefits You mean "She says data available for Gardasil shows that it lasts five years; there is no data showing that it remains effective beyond five years." well, there wasn't any 5+ years data in 2009. Weird that when this comes up in the antivaxxer catechisms it's always this story from 2009 and never Dr. Harper's 15 years of work since then firmly establishing the efficacy, safety, and longevity of the vaccine, and setting up vaccination and screening programs world wide to hopefully eliminate cervical cancer within the next few decades.
kstrauser 3y ago
How do the adverse reaction rates compare to the negative effects of the HPV that it prevents? Without those numbers, your claim is unhelpful. For instance, HPV causes about 37,000 cases of cancer each year: https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/hpv/statistics/cases.htm https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/hpv/statistics/cases.htm That works out to about 1 in 9,000 Americans. What are the rates of bad reactions to Gardasil that are worse than cancer? According to the CDC, at https://www.cdc.gov/hpv/hcp/vaccine-safety-data.html https://www.cdc.gov/hpv/hcp/vaccine-safety-data.html, "Approximately 28 million doses of Gardasil 9 distributed in the United States; 7,244 reports of adverse events (AEs); 97% of AEs classified as non-serious and 3% classified as serious" 3% of 7,244 is 217. 28,000,000 / 217 is one serious adverse reaction per 129,000 recipients, or 1/14th as common as HPV-related cancer. In other words, if you care about your health, you're 14x better off getting Gardasil than waiting to see if you get cancer from having HPV.

function_seven 3y ago

I believe the real reason she was against it was a widespread belief that HPV vaccination—considered a sexual health thing—was tantamount to encouraging promiscuity among recipients. Her stated reasons were bullshit smokescreens.