3 ms·

The "or" in your sentence indicates the choice in the market.

riversflow 3y ago
There isn't user choice, only developer choice. For example, if I want to play Fortnite with my IRL friends I must download Epic Launcher. If I want to play WoW with my friends I must download BattleNet, if I want to play Counter Strike I must download Steam. I don't get much choice in what my already existing community of friends decides to play. This is likely to be mirrored in phone app stores. Need whatsapp/facebook/instagram on your phone? download the Meta Store! Don't like their T&C? Pound sand.
- shaan7 3y ago
  Don't like their T&C, don't use them. As simple as that. I do not like Trucaller's T&C, so I do not use it. If some day I don't like WhatsApp's T&C, I won't use it. My friends and family will be asked to contact me via Signal (as an example). To your examples with games, there are lots of games that I do not install simply because I don't like those launchers. Whats wrong with that? It is _my choice_. I am not forced to use only Windows Store, for example. The argument that "because third party app stores can be shitty, they shouldn't be possible" is strange.
  - riversflow 3y ago
    Exile yourself from your social group to own the corporations. Got it.
nerdjon 3y ago
Maybe "And" would have been better, but I assume you are not a gamer if you think that. The reality is no, if I want to play Fortnite I have to install the Epic Game store. If I want to play GTA, even if I buy the game through steam I have to use the Rockstar Launcher. There are multiple instances of this situation in gaming and it is the exact thing I don't want to happen here.
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  > but I assume you are not a gamer if you think that. Why would you assume that? I play video games on my PC. I'm not forced to install any software. I can make informed decisions and understand the trade offs with what software I want to use. Chosing to install Epic Launcher and playing Fortnite is you sending a signal into the market. Competition exists, users can express their opinion and act on it.
  - nerdjon 3y ago
    Then you are conceding that the choice is to ether install those stores or not play the game? That is the exact point that I am trying to make in my post. That is not giving a user a choice that should matter to the User. That is removing the opportunity to me to play a game from where I want to play it. The problem is, many people are just fine doing it because they want to play a large enough game. Which again is my point. In reality most users would likely download a Facebook apps store if it was required to use Facebook, same for Twitter, TikTok, and whatever other thing that people are addicted to on their phones. That is my problem here and why comparing it to the situation with gaming is a good example. I should not loose the CHOICE to use an app from the App Store that I already use, because a developer is making their choice to push their own store. That is the situation we are looking at here, that to use the apps I want to use I have to use those stores. Which is ridiculous, and it is naive to think it isn't going to happen when it is the state of gaming right now.
    - shaan7 3y ago
      > That is the situation we are looking at here, that to use the apps I want to use I have to use those stores. Which is ridiculous, and it is naive to think it isn't going to happen when it is the state of gaming right now. Consider the alternative where the only place to install apps (and hence games) is the Windows Store. Would that really be better? Windows Store's update process is lot worse than Steam (flaky download status, no way to make backups etc), and in many cases Steam has better integration with local payment processors.

There isn't user choice, only developer choice. For example, if I want to play Fortnite with my IRL friends I must download Epic Launcher. If I want to play WoW with my friends I must download BattleNet, if I want to play Counter Strike I must download Steam. I don't get much choice in what my already existing community of friends decides to play. This is likely to be mirrored in phone app stores. Need whatsapp/facebook/instagram on your phone? download the Meta Store! Don't like their T&C? Pound sand.

shaan7 3y ago
Don't like their T&C, don't use them. As simple as that. I do not like Trucaller's T&C, so I do not use it. If some day I don't like WhatsApp's T&C, I won't use it. My friends and family will be asked to contact me via Signal (as an example). To your examples with games, there are lots of games that I do not install simply because I don't like those launchers. Whats wrong with that? It is _my choice_. I am not forced to use only Windows Store, for example. The argument that "because third party app stores can be shitty, they shouldn't be possible" is strange.
- riversflow 3y ago
  Exile yourself from your social group to own the corporations. Got it.

nerdjon 3y ago

Maybe "And" would have been better, but I assume you are not a gamer if you think that. The reality is no, if I want to play Fortnite I have to install the Epic Game store. If I want to play GTA, even if I buy the game through steam I have to use the Rockstar Launcher. There are multiple instances of this situation in gaming and it is the exact thing I don't want to happen here.

madeofpalk 3y ago
> but I assume you are not a gamer if you think that. Why would you assume that? I play video games on my PC. I'm not forced to install any software. I can make informed decisions and understand the trade offs with what software I want to use. Chosing to install Epic Launcher and playing Fortnite is you sending a signal into the market. Competition exists, users can express their opinion and act on it.
- nerdjon 3y ago
  Then you are conceding that the choice is to ether install those stores or not play the game? That is the exact point that I am trying to make in my post. That is not giving a user a choice that should matter to the User. That is removing the opportunity to me to play a game from where I want to play it. The problem is, many people are just fine doing it because they want to play a large enough game. Which again is my point. In reality most users would likely download a Facebook apps store if it was required to use Facebook, same for Twitter, TikTok, and whatever other thing that people are addicted to on their phones. That is my problem here and why comparing it to the situation with gaming is a good example. I should not loose the CHOICE to use an app from the App Store that I already use, because a developer is making their choice to push their own store. That is the situation we are looking at here, that to use the apps I want to use I have to use those stores. Which is ridiculous, and it is naive to think it isn't going to happen when it is the state of gaming right now.
  - shaan7 3y ago
    > That is the situation we are looking at here, that to use the apps I want to use I have to use those stores. Which is ridiculous, and it is naive to think it isn't going to happen when it is the state of gaming right now. Consider the alternative where the only place to install apps (and hence games) is the Windows Store. Would that really be better? Windows Store's update process is lot worse than Steam (flaky download status, no way to make backups etc), and in many cases Steam has better integration with local payment processors.